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BBW, then Coti?

Rosco

Well-Known Member
Before the invention of the Unicot and Dilucot techniques, it seems to have been standard practice to use a BBW with slurry followed by the Coti with water in order to get your edge sharp using Belgian hones. Does anyone still use this technique? Is it easier/quicker than Dilucot? I was just wondering why it hasn't really received any press coverage here on coticule.be.
I haven't really had much time for honing since I became a member here, but now that the house is nearly finished and the dark evenings are setting in, I think its about time I started again. I have several hones but I intend to do all my honing using Coti, BBW and possibly (Probably later) my Nakayama. I will probably buy a 600 grit Cosera for the rough work, and sell all my other hones. I don't have the same desire for using just one hone as many people here do, but I do see the appeal of it. I just love the feel of honing on slurry and thought that using the Coti to set the bevel followed by BBW with slurry and then Coti water might be the best route for me. So I was just looking for pros and cons from those more experienced than myself. Am I better off just learning to do the Dilucot, falling back on the unicot as I learn. If it makes any difference, I own #6 from the vault as well as 2 smaller cotis that I haven't really used.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
That practice is briefly mentioned in the
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. BBW slurry typically shows less of the limiting effect on keenness than Coticule slurry. Before I figured out ways to resolve that problem (slurry dilution), I advocated to refine the edge on a BBW with thin slurry before finishing on the Coticule with water. It works well, but with the dilution technique, one can get the desired keenness of the Coticule itself. Furthermore, BBW's do show variance in the slurry limiting effect of their slurry, just like Coticules do, although on average the effect is less. It depends a bit on the BBW used, how keen the final outcome will be, which makes the outcome of
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somewhat variable in end-keenness.

We're nearly finished with an experiment about sharpening razors with the Belgian Blue Whetstone, and when done, I'll write a full report about them, with recommendations for use.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

The*Cincinnati*Kid

Well-Known Member
I'm looking forward to reading this report. The coticule side of my stone has a gritty (sandpaper) feeling with just plain water, and feather lite X strokes while honing and my end results are about the same as the bbw side with VERY VERY little slurry. I'm sure its not the hone, rather my honing abilitys. When dry, the coticule side feels ever so slightly abrasive to the touch while the bbw side feels like glass. Is this the case (normal) with some man made coticule/bbw combos Bart? I think that the coticule is La Veinette, but not sure. I dont have a picture to post. It is a solid cream color with no inclusions, and doesn't have the textured/grain look like I see in almost all coticules. Does that mean anything?


Thanks.
Louis
 

jkh

Well-Known Member
I have been playing around with Bart's
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with great success :thumbup: Bevels are being set with a 2"x6" DMT 1.2k, which is well broken in. Next is 10-15 sets of half strokes on BBW starting with with a fairly thick slurry and finishing with a fairly light/watery slurry. Rinse razor and hone to finish with just water on the coticule side, since the coti side of my combo stone is a slow cutting La Grosse Blanche I usually do a set or two of half strokes before the finish x-strokes. Smooth and mellow.

I have really been enjoying this because there are three discrete steps in the process, so if I get interrupted (which is often at my house) it is easier to come back to what I was doing.
 

Rosco

Well-Known Member
I was mostly wondering if this would be an easier technique to learn than the Dilucot method, as I did have some success with it before this website came into existance. You also need to know that the tools you are using are capable of delivering the results you expect. Then you know that the only thing lacking is your skill and that practice will, in fact, make perfect. In this respect, your post hints that this might not be the best way to go.

Bart said:
BBW's do show variance in the slurry limiting effect of their slurry, just like Coticules do, although on average the effect is less. It depends a bit on the BBW used, how keen the final outcome will be, which makes the outcome of
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somewhat variable in end-keenness.

Learning Dilucot obviously requires patience and determination. I can't have these if I am wondering if using another method might be easier/better for me. This is probably why some people end up with so many hones. Now that I have decided that Dilucot is the route I shall take, I will stick with it till I get it right.


Bart said:
We're nearly finished with an experiment about sharpening razors with the Belgian Blue Whetstone, and when done, I'll write a full report about them, with recommendations for use.

Come on then.... Don't dilly dally man.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
The*Cincinnati*Kid said:
I'm looking forward to reading this report. The coticule side of my stone has a gritty (sandpaper) feeling with just plain water, and feather lite X strokes while honing and my end results are about the same as the bbw side with VERY VERY little slurry. I'm sure its not the hone, rather my honing abilitys. When dry, the coticule side feels ever so slightly abrasive to the touch while the bbw side feels like glass. Is this the case (normal) with some man made coticule/bbw combos Bart? I think that the coticule is La Veinette, but not sure. I dont have a picture to post. It is a solid cream color with no inclusions, and doesn't have the textured/grain look like I see in almost all coticules. Does that mean anything?


Thanks.
Louis

Well, very very little slurry is what I find delivers the best finish off a BBW. But Rico (Bluedun) has run some tests on his BBW and he gets perfect results on plain water.
At any rate, BBW's are much better finishers than generally thought, it would not surprise me if someone had a hard time deciding which one of both he likes best for edge finishing.

Concerning your Coticule, if it's a glued specimen, it's likely not a La Veinette. That layer is so narrow that it delivers almost exclusively natural combination hones. If it's a vintage Coticle, it could be one of many non-texured layers. About half of all Coticules are non-textured.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Connor,

My advice for you is to perform Dilucot, use about 10/12 dilutions on that La Dressante, and finish on water. If the HHT is not popping hairs at 8-10 mm from the holding point, than go to the BBW, with only a couple of rubs from the slurry stone. Give it a set of halfstrokes, add a splash of water and perform another set of halfstrokes. See if this improves the HHT.
Try to finish on the BBW with plain water, if you loose the HHT, go back to minimal slurry mode.

Wheter you want to refinish such an edge on your Coticule (use water only), or leave it finished on the BBW, is something you'll have to decide for yourself.

Please keep me posted,

Bart.
 

The*Cincinnati*Kid

Well-Known Member
If it's a vintage Coticle, it could be one of many non-texured layers. About half of all Coticules are non-textured.

it was advertized as vintage on ebay. Time will tell the best way to hone on this stone, because I will be using this my one and only stone for a long time to come. I've tried using lather on the finishing step to combat the gritty feeling and lack of keenness. I have only done it twice, but it worked ok.


sticking with it,
Louis.
 
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