Charnley Forest Anyone?

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Ok Chaps, here is a few pictures of my recently aquired Charnley Forest, I had quite a time finding this, and ended up with a bag of various vintage naturals, that I may post later on to see if anyone can help me to identify them, anyway heres my CF, it came in the usual handmade mahogany box, that had 2 levels, the other level had a brown coarser natural stone in. I have lapped and lapped and lapped until I couldnt lap anymore, boy these are hard stones, the edge it gives is a tad too crisp for my liking, although I have only used it a few times, I am not sure if it will remain a permanant resident here at Horsepool towers.

Thanks for looking, and any comments or advice would be gratefully received.
Ralfson (Dr)

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TM280

Well-Known Member
Hi!
Nice stone. Unfortunately, I have given up kissing frogs for now... I'm letting the mystery stones remain someone else's mystery...
If you don't get along with that Charnley after a while, I'd be happy to give it a go.:)

I have no direct experience with the Charnleys but I have done a good bit of testing on the (assumingly) British novoculite and a mystery synthetic. What I have found seems to mesh with what others say about the Charnley: it should be used with oil for the best result. I have used soapy water with decent results but oil smooths the novoculites (very fast, maybe around 6k, gritty with water) right out.

Give that a try, it might just be the thing...

regards,
Torolf
 

DJKELLY

Well-Known Member
This looks like a good place to ask this question. I am a bit of a metal worker (own a milling machine) and tried an experiment at two this morning--that addiction thing. I used a parallel block, just a chunk of steel about one inch x 3/4 inch by 8 inches, honed and polished one surface, and then used it as a lapping plate with .25 micron diamond spray. I need the narrow hone for some of my slightly warped razors and know that Ray finishes on a narrow stone for this reason. The results were remarkably good, but I haven't really closed the loop with a shave test yet. Anyone have experience with this technique. I think it might produce a harsh edge, but the microscope showed a very polished bevel.
 

sparq

Active Member
Every gentleman needs a CF! (except for gentlemen from Germany who prefer pasted stops ;)

Here is mine. I love it. It is hard as ... um .. as a rock and produces wonderful results - very keen edges that have misty scratch pattern. I am not a coti purist (read: I fail to obtain as good results as you coti pros) so I frequently use finishers after coti w/H20 and CF is one of my favorite ones.

By the way, it works very well with slurry (I have a CF slurry stone, too) and it supposedly produces better results with oil. I use it with water and a bit of detergent works wonders, too.

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Bart

Well-Known Member
Sparq, I'd hate to think we're a bunch of Coticule purists. Obviously the website is devoted to that rock, but we're open to investigate the options to get the best off any honing setup. Sharpening is more about human skill than it's about the properties of a finishing hone. The key factor is to know when and how and what, and to be able to put that knowledge into action.

I don't have a Charnley forest, never tried, so I personally can't offer any further insights. But if some of you gentlemen that have the knowledge are prepared to elaborate about it, we could put an article with all the necessary information about these hone in the sharpening academy. Where do they come from? What's the type of rock? Are they still produced? What's the best practice for using these? etc... It would be great to run such a thread and eventually turn the information into an article.

DJKELLY said:
This looks like a good place to ask this question. I am a bit of a metal worker (own a milling machine) and tried an experiment at two this morning--that addiction thing. I used a parallel block, just a chunk of steel about one inch x 3/4 inch by 8 inches, honed and polished one surface, and then used it as a lapping plate with .25 micron diamond spray. I need the narrow hone for some of my slightly warped razors and know that Ray finishes on a narrow stone for this reason. The results were remarkably good, but I haven't really closed the loop with a shave test yet. Anyone have experience with this technique. I think it might produce a harsh edge, but the microscope showed a very polished bevel.
The options for honing on a flat surface with the aid of an abrasive medium are nearly endless. I have some experience with CrO, is used a BBW as a substrate. It worked very well. It's a bit wasteful, and in the end, I have returned form all kinds of honing experiments back to my Coticule and always had to admit that I missed it. The comfort of the edges and the tactile delight to work with it. But that's just me.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
I know very little about these, I believe they are fairly rare, slated based naturals, I do know that they where extracted at Charnwood forest in Leicestershire, a stones throw from the spot I was born, and have long since stopped being produced, they are highly rated as finishers on both oil and water, and if you take a shave ready razor and give it 100 laps it gives a very sharp slightly crisp edge.

Thats as much as I know :thumbup:

Best Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 

mrmaroon

Well-Known Member
Actually, I think those are closely related to arkansas hones. I read somewhere they made of novaculite (the abrasive in arkansas hones). It sounds like yours performs like my black arkansas. It works almost exactly like my hybrid but a little slower on slurry and a lot crisper end result. It even polishes to a higher degree. I wonder how close the two are to each other. Most people look down on arkansas hones as being to slow, but what about charnleys? People must like them because they look neater and cost more. I know one SRPer touts them as being the ultimate hone, but ive learned to not take everything SRPer as complete truth;) .

Im really interested in how the two compare. Ralfy, if you would like I could send you a black arkansas to test against the charnley. I would put some cash in with it to cover postage back.

Regards,
Caleb
 

DJKELLY

Well-Known Member
How right you are, Bart. I did only one razor with the steel/diamond slurry and then right back to the yellow. It feels completely lifeless. I don't really know the difference in razor edge terminology, i.e. crisp, mellow, engaging? Of course some are obvious, but is there a real scale like with wines. (I don't know them either; x drunk!) It is probably on the site but I haven't found it yet. Anyway, the shave gave me a couple weepers and alcohol really woke me up.

I am also pretty sure I agree with Torbs that you change the coticule edge with more than a few linen laps. Mine is a dovo and it gets dark so I think it is pasted with a very mild abrasive. It really works, but I am still learning about the differing shaves. Even Gary talks about the occasional magical one. Compared to my years of experience shaving off a CroX strop, all cotiicule, correctly stropped shaves are much, much better. Every shave now is a precious learning experience and I don't have enough days left to learn it on my own. I would guess nobody does. Thanks again, Bart.
 

BlueDun

Well-Known Member
DJKELLY said:
Mine is a dovo and it gets dark so I think it is pasted with a very mild abrasive.
Dennis,

I just stumbled over this post. If you are talking about the standard dovo linen/leather strops, I do not think it is treated with anything. Even on untreaded linen you will see discoloration over time. There's alaways some honing debris left on the blade which will transfer to the linen. And even a razor that's been in use for a while will release the occasional fine particle from its edge.
My linen is also quite grey and I definitely know that it has no paste on it.

Cheers
BlueDun
 

DJKELLY

Well-Known Member
I'm glad to hear that. I don't want to think I am honing and not just stropping without knowing it.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
DJKELLY said:
I'm glad to hear that. I don't want to think I am honing and not just stropping without knowing it.
my tm linen is not treated. i have black paticules on my linen. dovo linen comes treated with white dovo paste normaly. this is just a conditioner and not abrasive.
gary
 

shaved

Active Member
Dovo 'linen' seems to be made of hemp, not flax. The white paste (mine came predressed) is said to contain chalk and is sold as a very(!) light polish.
 

danjared

Well-Known Member
shaved said:
Dovo 'linen' seems to be made of hemp, not flax. The white paste (mine came predressed) is said to contain chalk and is sold as a very(!) light polish.
Are you sure it's not cotton? I've never seen one first-hand, but I have an easier time believing that they use cotton (more common on strops) than hemp.
 

shaved

Active Member
This [1] is the catalogue from dovo, strops can be found on page 14/ 15.

Translation:
Juchten/ Hanf - Russian leather/ Hemp
Rindleder/ Hanf - Calf leather/ Hemp

Cotton is not used to produce linen afaik.


[1]
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danjared

Well-Known Member
I stand corrected!

I also find it interesting that there's a German word specifically for "Russian leather".
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
BlueDun said:
If you are talking about the standard dovo linen/leather strops, I do not think it is treated with anything. Even on untreaded linen you will see discoloration over time. There's alaways some honing debris left on the blade which will transfer to the linen. And even a razor that's been in use for a while will release the occasional fine particle from its edge.
My linen is also quite grey and I definitely know that it has no paste on it.

Cheers
BlueDun
According to my information, all Dovo linen strops come pretreated with Dovo's white linen strop dressing. According to another (less reliable) source, that dressing might be chalk based. But I'm not sure about that, there are other white substances imaginable with a soft buffing action. Titanium oxide comes to mind.

If it was untreated hemp, it would we have a very light straw color.
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For those interested in hemp straps:
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I haven't placed an order yet, but it looks like the good stuff.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

danjared

Well-Known Member
Looks tempting. I've been having my uncertainties about my Kanoyama linen (just the linen--well, and the metal hardware--the leather is some from Telly that I restored).
 
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