coticule acquisitions two and three

danjared

Well-Known Member
I thought I'd share my two other coticules (you all have already seen my first one).

My second was bought from theperfectedge.com. I think it looks most like N°21 in the Vault. It certainly seems moderate in speed, at least compared to my other coticules. Pictures here:
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I think the layer on this is pretty thin, but it should still last me many years.

My third coticule is a natural combo that I bought from a member at B&B. I haven't taken my own pictures yet so will post the thread:
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This is my favorite coticule so far. I need to lap the BBW side to test that out. That side is very thin. The coticule side is probably thick enough to last me the rest of my life, even if it were my only razor hone. Its tag says "Pike's" on it, so I imagine that it was sold by one of the ancestors of today's Norton-Pike. What would that date it at? Pre-WWI?

Enjoy!
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
The first one is a La Grise of a La Grosse Jaune. They're hard to tell apart from a picture. When wetted, La Grosse Jaune really becomes significantly more yellow than La Grise. La Grise a a bit faster than La Grosse Jaune.

The vintage one looks a lot like "Les Petas", a layer currently not exploited, but I have a small sample of it, courtesy of Ardennes. It's another layer that was highly esteemed in the past. As far as I can assess the small sample, it's a very fast layer.
That once again illustrates that the old qualification systems favored speed as an important criterion.

Here's a picture of the sample (scanned on a flatbed scanner):


I 've heard about "Pike". I believe they sold a whole variety of hones, including Coticules they imported. Maybe the venerable Smythe will chime in with some additional background information.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

danjared

Well-Known Member
Bart said:
The first one is a La Grise of a La Grosse Jaune. They're hard to tell apart from a picture. When wetted, La Grosse Jaune really becomes significantly more yellow than La Grise. La Grise a a bit faster than La Grosse Jaune.

The vintage one looks a lot like "Les Petas", a layer currently not exploited, but I have a small sample of it, courtesy of Ardennes. It's another layer that was highly esteemed in the past. As far as I can assess the small sample, it's a very fast layer.
That once again illustrates that the old qualification systems favored speed as an important criterion.

Here's a picture of the sample (scanned on a flatbed scanner):


I 've heard about "Pike". I believe they sold a whole variety of hones, including Coticules they imported. Maybe the venerable Smythe will chime in with some additional background information.

Kind regards,
Bart.
The first one (my 2nd) becomes fairly yellow when wet.

I'm unsure about the second one (my 3rd). That scan doesn't look terribly much like mine in person. I took a scan of each. (Sorry, I didn't do any color-balancing.) coti-1 is my small coticule(which you've seen before). 2 is the Ardennes and 3 is the Pike. The scans look a little dark, for what it's worth. The striations are bit less pronounced in person but more pronounced than the pictures I have. Anyway, the scans are in
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and the pictures of them wet are in
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.

I would say that the Pike coticule is fairly fast. It is certainly a pleasure to work with (not that the others aren't). The Ardennes is interesting in that it gives an enormous amount of feedback. The Pike gives less feedback and is "easier" to use.

I'll need to go to Belgium some day and visit Ardennes. This is too much fun...
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Your nr2 one looks definitely like a La Grise. La Grosse Jaune is as yellow as a smiley when wet.

Your nr3, I don't know. I thought Les Petas, but I could easily be wrong.
Here's a picture of the transversal side of Les Petas, that shows the very typical blue banding of that Layer.


That slurry stone is an interesting specimen as well.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

danjared

Well-Known Member
Bart said:
Your nr2 one looks definitely like a La Grise. La Grosse Jaune is as yellow as a smiley when wet.

Your nr3, I don't know. I thought Les Petas, but I could easily be wrong.
Here's a picture of the transversal side of Les Petas, that shows the very typical blue banding of that Layer.


That slurry stone is an interesting specimen as well.

Kind regards,
Bart.
Mornin' from New England.

"Yellow as a smiley when wet." I love that description. :D

Yes, even the transversal side of the Pike looks different. It's more linear and less wavey. There's even a purplish-salmon colored (couldn't think of a better description) layer between the coticule and BBW that I'm curious about. Maybe I'll get there in 50 years if I use the BBW side too. Even if this were not a Les Petas, it is definitely a nice hone. It is pretty fast and has a nice amount of feedback. Not so much as to be overwhelming, though. It is also a very hard coticule (unlike my La Grise, which chips if I accidentally tap something against it). I can try to get a transversal scan of it if you'd like. The BBW side also looks darker. I'm curious about what other specimens like it are around.

By the way, if it's interesting enough to you, you are welcome to copy and distribute those pictures as you please. I meant this thread mostly to share and make note of these wonderful rocks. Ah, maybe someday there will be some great photo database of coticules (and other natural hones). :thumbup:
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Pike probably imported from another company and mining pits than those active at the Ol' Preu concession. (The current Ardennes Coticule quarry). It could have been the Old Rock company, which was the largest Coticule exporting firm for most part of its existence. By the way: "Old Rock" is the name of a mine, a company, a brand and a quality category. The company not only sold "Old Rock" Coticules, The mine with the name did not deliver solely "Old Rock" brand, And the "Old Rock" company bought rough Coticule rock from several mining operation, some of which they turned into "Old Rock" hones. Anyone still following?:rolleyes:

Unless Smythe digs up something, we know nothing about where Pike obtained its Coticules. There are a number of Coticule layers that I have never seen (e.g. the famous "l'Allemande" layer), and it isn't even sure if, let's say, "La Veinette" at ol' Preu looks the same as "La Veinette" at Old Rock. There is a distance of several km between both locations. I already know that La Grise at Regné is a significantly bluer gray than the same layer at Ol' Preu (compare n°1 and n°2 of the Vault).

You sure are welcome to link pictures to your posts. Just place them in between tags. The format is:
Code:
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If you don't want the picture to resize to fit within the post, leave out =900.

Yes, we will add a future Coticule repository, where members can add pictures and information of their Coticules. That has been the plan since the beginning of the website, but so far, I haven't found the time to put it together. Maybe I can find some help with that. I'm going to start a new thread concerning the repository in the "website announcement and suggestions" section.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

danjared

Well-Known Member
Bart said:
Pike probably imported from another company and mining pits than those active at the Ol' Preu concession. (The current Ardennes Coticule quarry). It could have been the Old Rock company, which was the largest Coticule exporting firm for most part of its existence. By the way: "Old Rock" is the name of a mine, a company, a brand and a quality category. The company not only sold "Old Rock" Coticules, The mine with the name did not deliver solely "Old Rock" brand, And the "Old Rock" company bought rough Coticule rock from several mining operation, some of which they turned into "Old Rock" hones. Anyone still following?:rolleyes:
Not sure. My head's still spinnin' a bit.

Bart said:
Unless Smythe digs up something, we know nothing about where Pike obtained its Coticules. There are a number of Coticule layers that I have never seen (e.g. the famous "l'Allemande" layer), and it isn't even sure if, let's say, "La Veinette" at ol' Preu looks the same as "La Veinette" at Old Rock. There is a distance of several km between both locations. I already know that La Grise at Regné is a significantly bluer gray than the same layer at Ol' Preu (compare n°1 and n°2 of the Vault).
Yeah, I figured that variation across distances of kilometers makes this harder.

I'm curious where Smythe gets his information.

Bart said:
You sure are welcome to link pictures to your posts. Just place them in between tags. The format is:
Code:
Please, Log in or Register to view codes content!
If you don't want the picture to resize to fit within the post, leave out =900.

Yes, we will add a future Coticule repository, where members can add pictures and information of their Coticules. That has been the plan since the beginning of the website, but so far, I haven't found the time to put it together. Maybe I can find some help with that. I'm going to start a new thread concerning the repository in the "website announcement and suggestions" section.

Kind regards,
Bart.
I didn't link the pictures directly since they're large and uncompressed TIFFs. One problem with being at a university makes one forget other people's bandwidth limitations, so I just make a habit of minimizing my email attachment and direct-linking-of-images-into-threads habits... I can resize and upload later if people want.

I'll follow up on the new thread. I'm interested in helping starting in a couple weeks.

--Jared
 

danjared

Well-Known Member
I just parted with my first coticule today (I'll miss 'er). Just in time, a recent acquisition arrived. Here are some quick pictures.
[img=900]http://web.mit.edu/danjared/Public/coti/4th/4th-coti_1.JPG[/img]
[img=900]http://web.mit.edu/danjared/Public/coti/4th/4th-coti_2.JPG[/img]
[img=900]http://web.mit.edu/danjared/Public/coti/4th/4th-coti_3.JPG[/img]

I need to fill the cracks between the coti and BBW sides and chamfer the coti side. I think both sides need some lapping, too. No clue if the BBW side is usable yet.
 

danjared

Well-Known Member
sparq said:
Sweet! Is that BBW or slate? It looks like slate to me.
BBW. I was almost unsure myself, but building slurry with a mini DMT plate resulted in purple slurry.

Also, I noticed that the coticule side is ever so slightly bowed in the middle with a low spot on one edge next to the visible line. (I'm unsure if that line is a crack or vein.) I want to lap it due to that small low spot, but perhaps I'll lose to much if I do that. At least I'll chamfer the edges.
 

danjared

Well-Known Member
Oh, another thing is that it didn't come with a slurry stone. :( I was hoping it'd come with a vintage combo slurry stone. Oh well...

I mean, I have slurry stones for each of my other coticules. It's just nice to have one for each. Just one of those little obsessions. I'm also hoping to find a box for it.
 

Smythe

Well-Known Member
Bart said:
Pike probably imported from another company and mining pits than those active at the Ol' Preu concession. (The current Ardennes Coticule quarry). It could have been the Old Rock company, which was the largest Coticule exporting firm for most part of its existence. By the way: "Old Rock" is the name of a mine, a company, a brand and a quality category. The company not only sold "Old Rock" Coticules, The mine with the name did not deliver solely "Old Rock" brand, And the "Old Rock" company bought rough Coticule rock from several mining operation, some of which they turned into "Old Rock" hones. Anyone still following?:rolleyes:

Unless Smythe digs up something, we know nothing about where Pike obtained its Coticules. There are a number of Coticule layers that I have never seen (e.g. the famous "l'Allemande" layer), and it isn't even sure if, let's say, "La Veinette" at ol' Preu looks the same as "La Veinette" at Old Rock. There is a distance of several km between both locations. I already know that La Grise at Regné is a significantly bluer gray than the same layer at Ol' Preu (compare n°1 and n°2 of the Vault).

You sure are welcome to link pictures to your posts. Just place them in between tags. The format is:
Code:
Please, Log in or Register to view codes content!
If you don't want the picture to resize to fit within the post, leave out =900.

Yes, we will add a future Coticule repository, where members can add pictures and information of their Coticules. That has been the plan since the beginning of the website, but so far, I haven't found the time to put it together. Maybe I can find some help with that. I'm going to start a new thread concerning the repository in the "website announcement and suggestions" section.

Kind regards,
Bart.
OK you asked for it...

Edwin Burbank Pike and his brother Isaac Pike of Pike Station in the town of Haverhill ran the A.F. Pike Manufacturing Co in the late 1800s, primarily manufacturing scythe stones. At the time the company practically owned the village of Pike and had warehouses, quarries and timberlands in Indiana, Ohio, Mass, N.Y, Belgium, Germany, Austria, Scotland and other European countries. I would not be surprised they imported "Old Rock" Coticule from Belgium into the Americas.
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mrmaroon

Well-Known Member
Here is a coticule grading chart used in the old days
Here is the chart 2010041904.jpg

I owned a barbers' special (the highest grade) for some time. It was my first ever coticule. It was manufactured by TTO I believe. The layer i'm guessing was a petite blanche or a fast veinette. It was very fine and very fast on slurry. It had a lot of lines on it as well. Pictures are somewhere!

I also own an old rock (the second highest grade) it was sold by SR droescher. On Ebay it looked like a Veinette, however I don't think that is what it is. It has two silvery patches the size of quarters on it. It also has a single vein up the middle that is actually a crack (doesn't affect honing at all tho :thumbup: ). It is med hardness, very sandy texture, and impossible to dilocot with! The slurry released is so gritty, no matter how much you dilute the bevel looks like 4k level all the way to water. It is still very gritty with water and kind of auto slurries. The BBW on this one is the best ive ever used for speed. It generates swarf rapidly and is gritty just like the coticule side is. Slurry will darken somewhat with it too. If someone wanted to test it out I would have no problem sending it to them.
IMG_3176.jpg
IMG_3242.jpg
IMG_3177.jpg

My third is an old rock and is one smythe and I both own. It came from a JR Torrey paddle. It is very hard and weird looking. It looks a lot like a piece of wood. If I had to name its layer based on specs alone (not looks) my guess would be it is a lot like a la grise. It is med-slow speed on water, but the slurry is very fine not gritty at all. With water it is the slowest coticule I own. Dilocot is very easy on this one.

An interesting thing about this one is that when you lap it those little specks don't go away. They stay raised above the surface and will make a "brisker" edge. If you rub it long enough with a slurry stone they go away and the hone leaves a smooth edge. Second favorite to my hybrid coticule.
IMG_0512.jpg
IMG_0504.jpg

My fourth is a "Pikes Belgian Razor Hone Extra Choice Selected Grade" It is the fourth best grade according to the old chart. I have no idea what it looks like yet, because it is not in my possession. The seller took "pitchers" of the BBW side only. He was really interested in the box though!:lol: I cant wait to see what this coticule acts like! will post "pitchers" when it comes!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220663867700#ht_500wt_928

Also, I was wondering how much a coticule would cost today based on that chart. I paid 75 dollars. A 6in extra choice selected coticule was 9 dollars during WWI (I think that is what they are referring to?) a google inflation calculator puts the price at 117.50$ today!

Nice stones!
MrMaroon
 

danjared

Well-Known Member
Well, I discovered something interesting about my Pike coticule. I finally got around to lapping the scratch marks out of the BBW side so I could start experimenting with BBWs. (I've been on a bit of a break from any razor-related experimenting.) Then I noticed something unexpected: some pinkish dots on the BBW side. At first I thought they were lint, so I washed it off again. Nope, not lint. Here is a picture (sorry, from my phone): [img=900]http://web.mit.edu/danjared/Public/coti/pike/dots.jpg[/img]

The pictures that Slartibartfast took are now gone, so here are some new pictures (sorry, still phone camera):


[img=900]http://web.mit.edu/danjared/Public/coti/pike/IMAG0122.jpg[/img]
[img=900]http://web.mit.edu/danjared/Public/coti/pike/IMAG0123.jpg[/img]
[img=900]http://web.mit.edu/danjared/Public/coti/pike/IMAG0124.jpg[/img]
[img=900]http://web.mit.edu/danjared/Public/coti/pike/IMAG0125.jpg[/img]
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
During the Coticule weekend, Maurice Celis revealed that pink dots in a BBW, were always considered to indicate very good quality.
:thumbup:

Bart.
 

danjared

Well-Known Member
I noticed that N°41 in the vault has those pink dots, but I didn't think I'd be lucky enough to have a Salmon Rouge. It looks too light to be Salmon Rouge based on the small picture of N°41. I'm still wondering what this coticule is if it's not indeed Les Petas. I will try testing it tonight.
 

Matt

Well-Known Member
Oh my, that's a hefty coticule layer, isn't it!

Out of curiosity - Bart, how many coticules do you have at home? :w00t:

best wishes,
Matt
 
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