Course stones

[Rosco]

While I don't manage to find the time to sharpen razors at all lately, my to-do list is actually getting shorter these days, so I hope to get back into it in the next few months.
I have, for some time now, been looking for a course hone that I actually like to use (If there is such a thing).
I love the feeling of honing on slurry, be it a coticule, bbw, thuringian or japanese hone. The feeling of slurry is great. The way it sucks the blade to the hone. The feedback. You guys all know what I mean.
Anyway, I already have a pretty fast cutting coti (Number 6 from the vault), but I want something to use before it. So something below 1k at least. I reckon maybe something like a 400-800 grit hone. I already have the 6"x2" DMTs in 325, and 1200 grit and don't like the feel of them at all. Too hard, glassy or something like that. Don't like it. I have the Norton 4/8 and while I liked the feel of the 8k, I always thought the 4k was a bit gritty. The DMTs, although much courser, don't have this gritty feeling so I assume the feeling is not necessarily related to grit.
I figure you guys will know best what I mean when I rant about the feel of the hone in use, as for me at least, it's the reason I use a coti in the first place. So I figured this was a good place to ask if you have found any course hones that feel nice to use.
Do you guys have any suggestions or experience as to which hones to use before the coti?
I was leaning towards the Naniwa superstone or chosera ( the course ones aren't that dear). The superstone doesn't need soaking, but if the chosera feels much better in use, I would prefer that over the luxury of not having to soak the stone.

Has anyone used either of these hones in the sub 1k range?
Do you have a better idea?

Ooops. Posted in the wrong section like a dumbass. :blink:

 

[danjared]

While I don't manage to find the time to sharpen razors at all lately, my to-do list is actually getting shorter these days, so I hope to get back into it in the next few months.
I have, for some time now, been looking for a course hone that I actually like to use (If there is such a thing).
I love the feeling of honing on slurry, be it a coticule, bbw, thuringian or japanese hone. The feeling of slurry is great. The way it sucks the blade to the hone. The feedback. You guys all know what I mean.
Anyway, I already have a pretty fast cutting coti (Number 6 from the vault), but I want something to use before it. So something below 1k at least. I reckon maybe something like a 400-800 grit hone. I already have the 6"x2" DMTs in 325, and 1200 grit and don't like the feel of them at all. Too hard, glassy or something like that. Don't like it. I have the Norton 4/8 and while I liked the feel of the 8k, I always thought the 4k was a bit gritty. The DMTs, although much courser, don't have this gritty feeling so I assume the feeling is not necessarily related to grit.
I figure you guys will know best what I mean when I rant about the feel of the hone in use, as for me at least, it's the reason I use a coti in the first place. So I figured this was a good place to ask if you have found any course hones that feel nice to use.
Do you guys have any suggestions or experience as to which hones to use before the coti?
I was leaning towards the Naniwa superstone or chosera ( the course ones aren't that dear). The superstone doesn't need soaking, but if the chosera feels much better in use, I would prefer that over the luxury of not having to soak the stone.

Has anyone used either of these hones in the sub 1k range?
Do you have a better idea?

Ooops. Posted in the wrong section like a dumbass. :blink:

I've been looking for a hone in that range that I really like, too. I've used several (currently DMT plates) but haven't been thrilled about any of them. I'd like something natural. The closest thing I have is an Iyoto, which I've been afraid of using on razors.

 

[mrmaroon]

I use a queer creek hone sometimes. It is a sandstone from Ohio. Its around 2-3k with water, but cuts faster with slurry. There is one on ebay right now, search "pike stone". These hones are not very fast though, maybe a little slower than a coti.

 

[garyhaywood]

i have 1k naniwa and its great ,no soaking and it actaualy feels quite smooth for 1k. i use it before coticule . to save on slurry. With back and forth strokes and some pressure i can set bevel on my fast coticule. i just prefer to normal stroke on my naniwa. With very little pressure so i get a nice even bevel . I find it easy to carried away with back and forth strokes and can end up using to much pressure and getting a little wider bevel than i needed. plus i can check the edge better on naniwa. As slurry does'nt get in the way, saves keep wiping it away , i find it gets a little messy. After 1k i go straight to dilucot starting with milky slurry. i have 325/600 duo plate for heavier work

 

[sparq]

I gave up my quest for a fast natural bevel setter. A fast coti is IMHO the fastest reliable natural razor hone one can get. Ioto chips my razors. My Aoto is a dud that chips and is slow. Washita seems to be able to take a lot of abuse but it is slow. I settled for 325/600 continuous DMT and have not looked back.

 

[Bart]

I gave up my quest for a fast natural bevel setter.(...) I settled for 325/600 continuous DMT and have not looked back.

+1 on that statement.
WIth the excepetion that I own the DMT C/F (325/600grit), in Duosharp version. (the ones with the holes).
If broken in with Coticule slurry, the diamonds really smooth out a lot, but still provide all the speed you'll ever need for sharpening. I have created new bevels from scratch with that setup, and even that it only a matter of 20-30 minutes with it.
Coming of the 600, even a slower Coticule won't have any problems taking it from there.

Let's just say that diamonds are a natural mineral.

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[tat2Ralfy]

Amen to that :thumbup:
I opted for the more wife friendly priced 400/1000 jap wetstone, it works ok but its not a joy to use by any stretch of the imagination.

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)

 

[Rosco]

Amen to that :thumbup:
I opted for the more wife friendly priced 400/1000 jap wetstone, it works ok but its not a joy to use by any stretch of the imagination.

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)

Any of them work OK to be fair. It's the joy to use bit that I'm after. That might be asking a bit too much, but it shouldn't be horrible. I'm even considering one of these: http://www.edenwebshops.co.uk/en/pt/-naniwa-diamond-sharpening-stone-grit-600.htm#tabbutton2
If it was exactly what I wanted it to be, I would have it in a heartbeat. I'm a big believer in the "Buy once, and buy right" philosophy. It's a lot of cash for something that MIGHT be the answer though. Might have to try something cheaper first.

 

[danjared]

I use a queer creek hone sometimes. It is a sandstone from Ohio. Its around 2-3k with water, but cuts faster with slurry. There is one on ebay right now, search "pike stone". These hones are not very fast though, maybe a little slower than a coti.

I had that Queer Creek stone on my watch list for weeks, then took it off the day a couple days ago. You saying that just made me want to try it. So many things to try...

 

[danjared]

I gave up my quest for a fast natural bevel setter.(...) I settled for 325/600 continuous DMT and have not looked back.

+1 on that statement.
WIth the excepetion that I own the DMT C/F (325/600grit), in Duosharp version. (the ones with the holes).
If broken in with Coticule slurry, the diamonds really smooth out a lot, but still provide all the speed you'll ever need for sharpening. I have created new bevels from scratch with that setup, and even that it only a matter of 20-30 minutes with it.
Coming of the 600, even a slower Coticule won't have any problems taking it from there.

Let's just say that diamonds are a natural mineral.

Kind regards,
Bart.

Bart: I used to have one of those. I tried liking it but just couldn't for some reason. If only I had a coticule to smooth it on back then.

 

[Bart]

Bart: I used to have one of those. I tried liking it but just couldn't for some reason. If only I had a coticule to smooth it on back then.

For the purpose of sharpening razors,with their thin blades and relatively low bevel angles, the DMT's really need a serious break-in period. I'm not just talking about getting rid of a few diamond particles coincidentally sticking out high enough to chip the edge. These are knocked off during an initial rubbing session with a the shaft of an old screwdriver, or something similar.
That leaves the DMT serviceable for razor sharpening, but it still doesn't render the surface all sweet and nice to use.
If no other measures are taken, it will take several hours of service, before the diamonds hit a smoothness level that really makes them a lot nicer to use on razors. Raising Coticule slurry on top of the DMT, does speed up that process, and it adds a nicer feel to the DMT-surface, while you're waiting on it to become nicer of its own. As soon as the target is hit, I recommend to stop putting garnets of it, because it will probably shorten the lifetime of the hone. It doesn't speed up the smoothing-out period for nothing.

At any rate, good drop of dish washing detergent added to the honing water, is almost indispensable for working with the DMT's.
That, and a proper smoothing-out period, makes a huge difference in how they feel, and a distinct difference in how they perform.

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[mrmaroon]

I use a queer creek hone sometimes. It is a sandstone from Ohio. Its around 2-3k with water, but cuts faster with slurry. There is one on ebay right now, search "pike stone". These hones are not very fast though, maybe a little slower than a coti.

I had that Queer Creek stone on my watch list for weeks, then took it off the day a couple days ago. You saying that just made me want to try it. So many things to try...

If you pay shipping you can give mine a test run. I rarely use mine if only for novelty. It could be the answer you need, but it might also not be! In that case you can find out for a lot cheaper! You could also send it to Rosco if he wanted. It's an 8X2 size with no slurry.

Tell me if you want to give it a shot,
Mrmaroon

 

[danjared]

I use a queer creek hone sometimes. It is a sandstone from Ohio. Its around 2-3k with water, but cuts faster with slurry. There is one on ebay right now, search "pike stone". These hones are not very fast though, maybe a little slower than a coti.

I had that Queer Creek stone on my watch list for weeks, then took it off the day a couple days ago. You saying that just made me want to try it. So many things to try...

If you pay shipping you can give mine a test run. I rarely use mine if only for novelty. It could be the answer you need, but it might also not be! In that case you can find out for a lot cheaper! You could also send it to Rosco if he wanted. It's an 8X2 size with no slurry.

Tell me if you want to give it a shot,
Mrmaroon

Alas, I already pulled the trigger yesterday. Thank you for the offer, though! I'll possibly do a write-up when I've tested mine for a bit. Although, right now I have yohannrjm's wild-looking coticule to experiment with, so the queer creek review would have to wait until then. And I have all that suita to cut up. Too many rocks! :

 

[sparq]

Raising Coticule slurry on top of the DMT, does speed up that process, and it adds a nicer feel to the DMT-surface, while you're waiting on it to become nicer of its own. ... At any rate, good drop of dish washing detergent added to the honing water, is almost indispensable for working with the DMT's. That, and a proper smoothing-out period, makes a huge difference in how they feel, and a distinct difference in how they perform.

That is a very good advice Bart. I also tried Ioto as a slurry stone for the DMT (I saw some Japanese sellers recommending Ioto slurry on diamond hones) and it seems to work quite well, too. Is not experimenting fun? (we need a geek smilie )

 

[Paul]

Raising Coticule slurry on top of the DMT, does speed up that process, and it adds a nicer feel to the DMT-surface, while you're waiting on it to become nicer of its own. ... At any rate, good drop of dish washing detergent added to the honing water, is almost indispensable for working with the DMT's. That, and a proper smoothing-out period, makes a huge difference in how they feel, and a distinct difference in how they perform.

That is a very good advice Bart. I also tried Ioto as a slurry stone for the DMT (I saw some Japanese sellers recommending Ioto slurry on diamond hones) and it seems to work quite well, too. Is not experimenting fun? (we need a geek smilie )

Aren't all emoticons by their very nature "geek smilies"? :huh:

 

[danjared]

Raising Coticule slurry on top of the DMT, does speed up that process, and it adds a nicer feel to the DMT-surface, while you're waiting on it to become nicer of its own. ... At any rate, good drop of dish washing detergent added to the honing water, is almost indispensable for working with the DMT's. That, and a proper smoothing-out period, makes a huge difference in how they feel, and a distinct difference in how they perform.

That is a very good advice Bart. I also tried Ioto as a slurry stone for the DMT (I saw some Japanese sellers recommending Ioto slurry on diamond hones) and it seems to work quite well, too. Is not experimenting fun? (we need a geek smilie )

Aren't all emoticons by their very nature "geek smilies"? :huh:

And the Japanese-style emoticons are extra geeky.

 

[Rosco]

I use a queer creek hone sometimes. It is a sandstone from Ohio. Its around 2-3k with water, but cuts faster with slurry. There is one on ebay right now, search "pike stone". These hones are not very fast though, maybe a little slower than a coti.

I had that Queer Creek stone on my watch list for weeks, then took it off the day a couple days ago. You saying that just made me want to try it. So many things to try...

If you pay shipping you can give mine a test run. I rarely use mine if only for novelty. It could be the answer you need, but it might also not be! In that case you can find out for a lot cheaper! You could also send it to Rosco if he wanted. It's an 8X2 size with no slurry.

Tell me if you want to give it a shot,
Mrmaroon

Thanks for the offer Caleb, but I don't think it would hit the spot for me. I'm looking for something to do the heavy work that just takes too long on a coti. Looks like I might actually try those Naniwa diamond hones as I have found them for $60 here:
http://chefknivestogo.ecomm-search.com/search?query=naniwa+diamond
Unfortunately they dont have the 600 grit, only the 1k and 6k. But it would give me a chance to see what they feel like, and the 1k may even be fast enough for me.
I was interested to see if anyone here uses and was happy with any other solution other than the DMTs. It's the feel, I'm most interested in as I know any of them will cut steel.

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[Smythe]

I use an old Carburundum sharpening stone (probably about 500 to 800 grit) that work great. You could probably get one at the nearest hardware store for a few dollars. Most will be the double grit kind but you will use the fine side.

They cut steel very fast (probably as fast as diamonds) however they do clog quickly because steel tends to “stick” to the grits, so use water with it and don’t get the oil stone type such as the Norton India.