dilucot method

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
Bart when doing dilucot method by honing as you recomend diluting every 30 laps once bevel is set then finishing with 50 laps as slurry realy thins out are you using this exact procedure or are you going by feed back and oviously your experiance. Or are you counting the amount of laps?

If you could explain how you are doing dilucot. I have no problems shaving and my results are realy consistantfrom dilute method and i use it all the time but i do feel somtimes i could probably of done less laps and somtimes may be more any more tips would be great .

One of the things i realy notice is the change in sound and the smootness in stroke and the way the razors grabs the hone while still on slurry stages and if i go real slow i can feel the grabiness as slurry gets thinner but i loose this feed back as the slurry disapears and on water it s even harder to sense thats where i use hht to see how things are shaping up.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Gary,

there's really not much more to say. I reckon you read the Advanced Feedback Markers article. Apart from that, it's all feel and doing too many laps.B) After a while you start doing less laps, till the point you notice the edge is not quite there when finishing. Now, "what is not quite there?" I can hear you asking.:) For me, when finishing I always do 50-something laps on water as a no-brainer. Then I test with the HHT. Everything less than a "violin" I consider "not quite there", and that requires reaching back into a thin slurry. But if I get the "violin", I know that if I keep at it, I'll eventually get the edge to sever hanging hairs. So I might do 1 rub with the slurry stone, add water and do 30 laps. I check again. Something will have changed, maybe the violin plays louder, maybe some parts of the edge start to catch & pop. So I might get up to get my shaving brush and paint lather on the Coticule before I do 30 stropping strokes. I check again, with half of the previous hair, that's just lying there. I might decide to do 20 half strokes on each side of the blade (water only). HHT. 100 rapid X-stokes with the spine in good contact, but the edge barely floating over the surface. HHT. Drystropping on the Coticule? Be my guest. HHT. Sometimes I find the edge at the very frist HHT, sometimes it takes me more perseverance. But I am confident that I can get there, so I don't give up. I don't come near a strop before my edge catches and pops hair along the entire edge. It saves money on CrO:rolleyes:

Best regards,
Bart.
 

rayman

Well-Known Member
Gary,
I am not sure what Bart does, but I pretty much test the edge the same way I would using synthetics, such as the 1k bevel setter. As you already know, I don't use the TNT or the TPT test, but I do test for the edges ability to cut arm or leg hair, at their base. If I find the edge is doing this along the whole length, I keep at it for maybe 30 or 40 more strokes and clean everything.
This is the point I change to clear water and begin the final finish. This method has worked very well for me, up until now, and I will be interested to see if Bart does anything differently.

Hope this helps,

Ray
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
i'm able to catch the hair and pop it on a fairly medium strand of hair i'm actualy managing that right now as we speak i'm doing extra laps just to se if it gets any better. Is that the kind of pass i should be looking for of my hone.Catch and then pop?
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
rayman said:
Gary,
I am not sure what Bart does, but I pretty much test the edge the same way I would using synthetics, such as the 1k bevel setter. As you already know, I don't use the TNT or the TPT test, but I do test for the edges ability to cut arm or leg hair, at their base. If I find the edge is doing this along the whole length, I keep at it for maybe 30 or 40 more strokes and clean everything.
This is the point I change to clear water and begin the final finish. This method has worked very well for me, up until now, and I will be interested to see if Bart does anything differently.

Hope this helps,

Ray
Ray i purchased one of your balsa hones i emailed you did you get my emails and paymant as i hav'nt heard from you? gary
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
rayman said:
Gary,
I am not sure what Bart does, but I pretty much test the edge the same way I would using synthetics, such as the 1k bevel setter. As you already know, I don't use the TNT or the TPT test, but I do test for the edges ability to cut arm or leg hair, at their base. If I find the edge is doing this along the whole length, I keep at it for maybe 30 or 40 more strokes and clean everything.
This is the point I change to clear water and begin the final finish. This method has worked very well for me, up until now, and I will be interested to see if Bart does anything differently.

Hope this helps,

Ray
 

rayman

Well-Known Member
Bart said:
Gary,

there's really not much more to say. I reckon you read the Advanced Feedback Markers article. Apart from that, it's all feel and doing too many laps.B) After a while you start doing less laps, till the point you notice the edge is not quite there when finishing. Now, "what is not quite there?" I can hear you asking.:) For me, when finishing I always do 50-something laps on water as a no-brainer. Then I test with the HHT. Everything less than a "violin" I consider "not quite there", and that requires reaching back into a thin slurry. But if I get the "violin", I know that if I keep at it, I'll eventually get the edge to sever hanging hairs. So I might do 1 rub with the slurry stone, add water and do 30 laps. I check again. Something will have changed, maybe the violin plays louder, maybe some parts of the edge start to catch & pop. So I might get up to get my shaving brush and paint lather on the Coticule before I do 30 stropping strokes. I check again, with half of the previous hair, that's just lying there. I might decide to do 20 half strokes on each side of the blade (water only). HHT. 100 rapid X-stokes with the spine in good contact, but the edge barely floating over the surface. HHT. Drystropping on the Coticule? Be my guest. HHT. Sometimes I find the edge at the very frist HHT, sometimes it takes me more perseverance. But I am confident that I can get there, so I don't give up. I don't come near a strop before my edge catches and pops hair along the entire edge. It saves money on CrO:rolleyes:

Best regards,
Bart.

Bart,

This is the exact information I have been looking for. I have been getting some incredibly smooth edges and great feedback from folks I have been honing for, but as you know, there always seems to be the desire to perfect things even more. This information has just saved me many days and hours of experimenting.
The most critical point for me is not working with the slurry, but making the transition from the slurry to the final finish. I will work with your recommendation and see what the next stage in learning brings.

Thanks,

Ray
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
I think you probably get the best out of your Coticule Gary.
If you really want to make sure, you can do a few Unicot edges and compare them to your Dilucot results. They should be equally keen. Any honer with some skill will easily squeeze the last bit of keenness out of his Coticule by use of the Unicot method.

My edges "catch and pop" hanging hairs off the hone, on both methods. After that, I strop them till the hair falls at the mere touch.

Bart.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
I have tryed both methods many times and both shaves are equal. i just prefer the challange of dilucot method plus single bevel. Even though the unicot method is great to fall back to if needed. i just tryed a thew stropping strokes and nother 100 swift strokes and it defanatly improved hht i'm now catching and the hair go's ping and shoots of the edge no problem. i guess its just down to fine tuning .
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
Just stropped the razor and hht 10/10 i normaly manage a good 8 the extra laps defanatly work i went back to one rub with s/stone and then tryed hht then i did 100 laps water hht was much better i also tryed stropping of hone hht was the same i eventualy finished on 50 more swift very light laps hht was very good even extra fine hair only just cathching medium strand hht exallant.

I just shaved with the razor on a two day growth and this razor glided throught n/s pass . I normally only then shave across the grain this time i did a s/n pass basicly against the grain so comfortable.

I have honed this razor so many times using dilucot method as it is my experimental razor and the shave as always been great no pulling but i always felt it could be better ie smoother and a little drag on my tash area thats all this time no problem twice as smooth and no drag or slight resistants in those tougher areas. reason being more laps at the very end which i have never realy tryed untill now .
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
That's great news, Gary.

Yes, it really pays off to get knee deep into the finishing stage. :)
It's one of my favorite parts of the honing process.

As a disclaimer: I think that this is really an "advanced" honing topic. For those who are taking first steps on a Coticule, feel free to try the advice, it won't hurt. But it's very possible that it won't do anything for your edge, because we are really discussing the difference between whiskers fleeing when they see the razor and whiskers running off when they hear the razor approach... As long as your whiskers only part at the touch with the razor, your Coticule is not playing in the right league yet...:D

I'm just kidding, but you guys are getting the picture, right?
 

justin

Well-Known Member
Haha! Yes Bart, the difference is very minuscule. To tell you the truth I'm so insensitive I don't think I could notice any difference. :lol: I don't think I would be good at judging another persons honing, because I can't really tell the difference beyond a certain point. I guess if I focused on it I could see differences, but if I'm just doing my thing shaving, then I'm not going to noticed all these small differences. I'm am very pleased with the edges I can produce, and that's all that matters. :) I really need to focus on consistency right now. :lol:

Either way, I think this is some good info. You all have really opened my mind to the different possibilities. I'll have to give these techniques a try.

Bart said:
X-stokes with the spine in good contact, but the edge barely floating over the surface. HHT.
This one I have used to good effect. :thumbup:


Justin
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
just honed differant blade on coti just to see if i couldnow compare to my last razor doing dilucot standard procedure . But once again finding lots more laps at the very end and especialy water stage for finishing i did sets of 50 testing hht each time i did go back to slurry sufrace only ultra light for 50 and again tested hht by about 250 to 300 laps on waterquike swift strokes ones just like you were stropping but in reverse just gliding over the hone the hht was poping realy well of hone on thin to medium strand of hair after stropping the same hair and finer hair of my leg the hair only had to touch the razor and it poped, this i can only normaly achieve of issards or cr.ox now with lots more strokes in final stages if you have the most out of slurry honing you can easily pop hair of water in last stages i have found more than one hundred on water is defanatly needed for me. What do you find bart does this sound about right?
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Thats a lot of laps Gary, do you think you maybe came off slurry too soon? or is this normal for your stone?
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
I always do the method bart recomends and i always get a shave ready razor and a form of hht maybe 7/10. But i always get slight improved edge of my issards somtimes much better and smoother. So i've been trying to match the pasted edge as i no its possible. What i have never done is gone back to coti i've moved on to paste. Latley i've been trying more laps on coti with water in sets of 50 and believe me it squeezes the ultimate out of the hone that paste does alone.

I dilute right down to bearly grey water untill slurry has vanished and only then i move to water. by then i'm poping hair but i have found with more laps i've been able to make the pop right of the blade so what i'm doing is asesing the edge with hht only when i'm satisfied i will strop. I did do probably to many just to see how good i could get the honed edge.

but realy happy with the edge of both these razors and no need for final pasting not that it would matter. What i'm trying to do is just get the very best out of coticule.

As for finishing with water my coticule is very slow refiner. i have to say i'm very pleased with the hone its a great bevel setter and very nice finisher it is the best coticule i have honed on so far.
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Thats very very cool Gary
you really are pushing the most out of that hone mate, next time I hone with dilocut I am going to try sticking at it until I am happy with hht, its gotta give a smoother shave right?
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
the razors i use i have two each one differant ones a DA and the other one is racoon the racoon i must of honed 30 times plus on dilucot method and it was the first time it had shaved what i would say extra smooth so much so i could'nt believe it infact i thought it might be my new castle thorbes shave cream which i got free of some one which btw is realy nice stuff and should be at £20 pound a tub but even against the grain it was so comfortable.

What i did was usuly method and just at the end before water honing test the hht you need to be able to catch and pop the hair just do 50 laps or 30 at a time until the catch and pp gets better to the stage wher you think this is exallant then strop as usaul then you should be poping hair at mere touch of the edge the shave will be exallant. I've been doing dilucot method every week for at least 6 months plus its just starting to pay off.

You can all ways use cr.ox if needed
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Thast way cool Gary, it sounds like you are really seeing results :thumbup:
Do you mean you hone one evening a week for the practice?
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
normaly once aweeek on a total of 3 differant razors just latley i've been honing on the two i mentioned i just dull them and start agian i shave of coticule and then i will add paste to compare the differance or i will add unicot method and compare the shave. I have to say unicot is so easy to reach keeness but i always preferd the shave of dilucot method plus the challange of reaching the same keeness plus no messing with tape. Thats why i'd rather opt for paste to improve. I think also dilucot method is good practice for any one to improve there technique due to the amount of laps needed after athew weeks of doing dilucot you naturaly become alot quiker and i've learn't to do faster strokes with lighter pressure that i am comfortable at. I have to say its still nakering and can give you neck ake etc even though i think my muscles in those areas are actualy use to it now.
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
and no honing in the week?
I know i do a bit most nights, but I have almost worked through every razor I own thats needed honing (about 10) however I am about ready to slow it down a bit now, and My Mrs is more than ready hahaha
 
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