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Dulling on Glass

IsaacRN

Well-Known Member
I had a question in regards to dulling on glass. Now I think it is pretty common knowledge to establish the bevel on whatever stone your using. In order to do the Dilutot/Unicot methods, we dull on glass and then start the progression. Now, its 3 am and I have various things racing through my mind in regards to honing. Why do we not, or why is dulling not talked about in regards to synthetic hones? Is this only something that is relevant to coticules? Should I always dull on glass after establishing a bevel? What are the positives of doing this activity other than just progressing.
 

geruchtemoaker

Well-Known Member
you can also dull a razor an glass before using synthetics, we do it to know when the bevel is properly set(if it starts shaving arm-hair again over the entire length of the blade) so we can proceed with the rest of the sharpening job.

hope this helps you
kind regards
Stijn
 

IsaacRN

Well-Known Member
geruchtemoaker said:
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I understand that when the bevel is set, you dull on glass, but my question is why? Is the edge very fragile on the 1k, that its better formed when it dulled and reshaped? So, it is recommended to dull after bevel is established on synthetiic honing?
 

decraew

Well-Known Member
Once the bevel is set (by yourself) there's no need to dull the edge. I assume that when you buy a new razor there's no need to dull the edge either.

It's only when you buy a used razor that you dull the edge (just so it doesn't shave arm hair), before you start working on the bevel.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Indeed. Dulling on glass is just an easy trick to take the guesswork out of knowing when the bevel work is done.

The effect is minimal. Even a thorough stropping will render the edge back to shaving condition. But on a hone (any hone), the effect of the glass stroke can not be undone before the bevel sides are fully flattened. If you were to dull a perfectly sharpened razor, that already had a good bevel, refinishing it on a Coticule with only water on top, will be enough to fully restore the edge. But if the bevel was convex or showing deterioration from use, that first has to be fixed with stronger measures. Such condition is not caused by the dulling on glass, it is only exposed by it.

Personally, I don't understand why, on a razor in normal service, you would want to use any additional bevel setting hone, before jumping to a Coticule. For a long time I used a DMT-E prior to the Coticule. It leaves a more aggressive bevel than a slurried Coticule. I felt more confident with the DMT bevel, until I figured out that the microteeth that lend the DMT bevel its performance, need to go anyway, before a Coticule can impart its smooth keenness. I put away my DMT-E at that point and never looked back. If a razor is damaged I use the DMT-F (600), or even the DMT-C (325). All the rest is work for the Coticule.

On those coarser DMTs I usually have tape on the spine to protect it from excessive wear. When done, I remove the tape, perform a dulling stroke on glass, and go to a Coticule to correct the bevel to it's un-taped angle. The dulling stroke makes knowing when I'm done with that a no brainer.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
I will just add, it really pays to dull the edge before honing even a new razor, that way you know the sides of the bevel are completely flat, once it passes the SAT (shaves arm hair test) if you start without dulling you may end up doing a lot of work and never actually reaching the very edge of the bevel.
Also you will have no measure of whether your slurry is at the right constancy, before starting to dilute, if your slurry is too thick and you don't use the SAT, you can totally fail in your honing.
And finally if the edge is microchipped, dulling on glass will help to remove the chips, and save you some work on the stone. I never go from a synthetic stone to a Coticule without dulling, for that very reason, if I need to use coarse stone to repair a bevel, I always dull on glass before setting the bevel again on a Coticule.

Beat regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Sir Bart I see we were typing at the same time, and indeed gave very similar answers :thumbup:

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 

decraew

Well-Known Member
tat2Ralfy said:
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Didn't know that. But I don't understand why. Doesn't a factory edge always have flat bevels ? Convex bevels being a consequence of repeated stropping on pastes &all. Also I wouldn't expect microchipping from new blades.
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Factory's sometimes finish on paste, but more importantly on a new blade we still need to establish the slurry we are using is bang on, and the microchip reference was aimed at non new razors, either way the dulling allows us to easily set a firm foundation.

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
I have not yet come across a factory bevel of a Dovo or a Thiers Issard that actually was flat, or had the "natural" angle.
I have no idea what they do with these razors. They cut a bevel from scratch without wearing the spine. I've read a couple times that the spine is lifted a bit while cutting the bevel on a rotary sharpening disc. The rest is done with pastes. At European labor cost, I can imagine that they need to make the razors shaveworthy in the shortest amount of time.

Kind regards,
Bart
 

DJKELLY

Well-Known Member
decraew said:
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Even it the factory bevel IS flat, which it isn't frequently, it is not necessarily flat and on the right plane from the spine to the edge. They may use a sleeve or just hold the spine away from their stone to keep it pristine. It really doesn't matter, if you dull on glass you ensure you cover all the contingencies. Denny
 
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