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I am currently trying the Dilucot as we speak

Disburden

Well-Known Member
Ok guys,

Right now I just dulled an old Tonsorial Gem razor on razor that used to be shave ready, it will not shave arm hair. what I plan on doing tonight for as much as possible is while posting in the forum, I am going to document my progression and ask questions as I go.

I thought it would be cool to start on the forum as of right now and let everyone know how my progress goes while you know I am honing as I speak. Of course if I feel I need to take a break to, God forbid, eat dinner or something I will stop for the day.

The coticule I am using is my only one, a 6inch by 1.5 inch La Nouvelle Veine I bought from the Perfect Edge almost two years ago. It is very fast in slurry, which blackens quickly, but then is also very very slow in water. The dilution method, from what I have experienced, is hard with this layer because of the bipolar behavior.

I am going to start setting a bevel right now and I will post when I can shave my arm hair. I will start with a thinner slurry to help against slurry dulling.
 

Disburden

Well-Known Member
Bevel, I guess the easy part, was set in about five minutes and shaves arm hair throughout the whole edge. It even seems to bite and cut arm hair off the skin, which is a good sign. I used a very thing slurry compared to what I usually use, this may be why.
 

Disburden

Well-Known Member
So far the edge cuts hair, but it bites the hair too, it's not a clean slice like I am used to on other hones. After setting the bevel I rinsed the hone (Mistake?) and raised another thin slurry. The reason I rinsed was because there was little hairs on the stone so I had to get rid of them to not effect my edge. I then did about 15 half strokes on each side followed by ten X strokes (I love X strokes, it's a habit) and I then diluted with a drop of water. So far I can see how the edge cuts hair and bites it off but it's not slicing through easily like I want it to.

Patience...
 

Disburden

Well-Known Member
I think, maybe, trying more strokes for each dilution droplet is the key with this method. I am adding 10 strokes per step to further slow down the process.

So far, I have done maybe 12 dilution steps from a very light slurry (Hardly visable/not milky) from cutting arm hair after the bevel till now. Arm and leg hair cut easier than before but the edge still won't slice through hair and make them fall silently like I am used to with other stones (which can be a good thing, I don't know).
 

Disburden

Well-Known Member
danjared said:
:thumbup:

Just remember, dilute slowly. Leave speed for when you've gotten it all down.

I think adding more strokes per droplet may be a key to this coticule. I will see.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Just a few quick markers:

1. you are not using a spray bottle, are you? You said "drop of water", so I'm think you're not. Which is good.
2. There's no need to test anything during the dilution phase. It's too much distraction. I get my best results when I stay focused on the process for the duration of the entire dilution stage. If I take any break at all, even to say a few words to my wife, it is in between the stages, not during.
3. Don't make the drops of water too small. There is always some evaporation going on, perhaps even some absorption, I don't really know, but fact is that the slurry dries if you would not add any water at all. If you add too little water, the drying of the slurry can catch up with you. This differs from stone to stone. Sometimes I will add a drop of water at every flip, but usually I add a double drop at every full cycle (one set of halfstrokes away from me + one set of halfstrokes towards me).
4. If you notice that the slurry thins out too fast, just skip a drop and stay a bit longer at it, making use of the natural drying effect of the slurry. With some practice, you'll develop a feel for dilution and will be able to play with the parameters without giving it much further thought. It really is like learning to play a music instrument.
5. Concentrate on the feedback of the Coticule. A good dilution alters the feedback very gradual from the typical slightly grainy feel of milky slurry too the skating feel on water.
6. If you can reach a keenness where a thick hair will play "violin" with the edge, you've done well. The rest can be achieved during the finishing stage.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

Disburden

Well-Known Member
Bart said:
Just a few quick markers:

1. you are not using a spray bottle, are you? You said "drop of water", so I'm think you're not. Which is good.
2. There's no need to test anything during the dilution phase. It's too much distraction. I get my best results when I stay focused on the process for the duration of the entire dilution stage. If I take any break at all, even to say a few words to my wife, it is in between the stages, not during.
3. Don't make the drops of water too small. There is always some evaporation going on, perhaps even some absorption, I don't really know, but fact is that the slurry dries if you would not add any water at all. If you add too little water, the drying of the slurry can catch up with you. This differs from stone to stone. Sometimes I will add a drop of water at every flip, but usually I add a double drop at every full cycle (one set of halfstrokes away from me + one set of halfstrokes towards me).
4. If you notice that the slurry thins out too fast, just skip a drop and stay a bit longer at it, making use of the natural drying effect of the slurry. With some practice, you'll develop a feel for dilution and will be able to play with the parameters without giving it much further thought. It really is like learning to play a music instrument.
5. Concentrate on the feedback of the Coticule. A good dilution alters the feedback very gradual from the typical slightly grainy feel of milky slurry too the skating feel on water.
6. If you can reach a keenness where a thick hair will play "violin" with the edge, you've done well. The rest can be achieved during the finishing stage.

Kind regards,
Bart.
No Spray Bottle, Bart. I use a little glass with water in it like in your video, to dip my finger in. I've been following things here for a while so I remembered the glass of water. The sharpness test was only used to set the bevel, which you're right, it was a big distraction and caused me to clean the hone off to continue. I shouldn't known better because I have set bevels on this coticule a hundred times already. My drops of water may be small, it's hard to tell because there is no bench mark on how to know the size a drop of water should be but it at least seems to be a consistent size as it drops off my finger tip every time.

By this point the slurry is practically water and the razor is sort of sucking down to the hone and gliding on it. I will have to get used to the HHT thing, I have never tried it before as it never worked for me no matter what hones I used.

Musically instrument you say? That's good because I've been playing music and studying theory for years! LOL:love:
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Disburden said:
By this point the slurry is practically water and the razor is sort of sucking down to the hone and gliding on it. I will have to get used to the HHT thing, I have never tried it before as it never worked for me no matter what hones I used.
Strictly spoken, the HHT isn't necessary to achieve good results, but it is the only easy way to communicate about the edge over long distance. But it cal also save you a lot of second guessing and jumping back and forth between test shaving and additional finishing laps.
Just use thick, freshly washed human hair, and you'll be fine. You've probably read the elaborate
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already.

Bart.
 

Disburden

Well-Known Member
So far this is promising, I have shaved a spot on my arm after just water for 60 laps (x strokes) and the razor's edge feels a lot different than anything I have really used before but the spot was completely wiped clean by the razor. When I have clean hair around I will do the HHT, I would steal my wife's but her hair is thin, very light, and oily. :thumbdown: :lol:
 

Matt

Well-Known Member
Disburden said:
After setting the bevel I rinsed the hone (Mistake?) and raised another thin slurry. The reason I rinsed was because there was little hairs on the stone so I had to get rid of them to not effect my edge.

If I may? If you see/feel something on your hone try resist the temptation to totally rinse it. That's especially important if you have a dilution sensitive stone - if you make the new slurry too thick that's half the problem, it will just set you back a little, and you will dilute it further. But should you make it too thin you may have too wide a gap between dilutions and the rest of the work might get you nowhere.

So if it's possible, try to slowly run a razor (edge trailing) over the spot where there's something and just wipe it off the stone with your finger. That's a hint Bart gave somewhere else and I find it really useful.

regards mate,
Matt
 

chti_lolo

Well-Known Member
very interesting thread for me,

The difficult part of Dilucot for me is when working on plain water
At the end of the dilution stage,
Bart said:
If you can reach a keenness where a thick hair will play "violin" with the edge
I can easily reach that point, what I use is hair from my breast (because they are thicker and more "supple") but I don't know if it is a really good marker (but I don't have any more air on my legs and on my left forearm:D )

On one razor, I can succeed in UNICOT and one thing I noticed is the shape of the water wave in front of the edge.
With the other razor, I can't succeed( 2/3 of the blade have a HHT 3 and the other 1/3 something between 1-2 )but the wave in the font of the edge was different... I have tried many tips from other members and I think this lead to my first (and only for the moment) success in Dilucot.

thanks for opening this thread that I will follow looking for honing "secrets"

Laurent
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Laurent,

With Dilucot, I hardly ever get the easy HHT results that Unicot delivers. It probably isn't even possible. There's an old thread somewhere with a possible explanation. I'll look it up for you later tonight.

Some general HHT makers, that vary a bit according to the grind and steel of the razor:
If I can pop hairs off a finished Dilucot edge, even relatively close to the holding point let's say 8-10mm, and if the edge has stopped improving from more work, I always call it good enough. And it invariably is good enough. When properly stropped, such an edge will easily pass the HHT much further form the holding point (4-5cm and more). And the shaves are excellent.

With Unicot, the HHT, with the hairs I use, typically pops with less effort at 2-3cm of the holding point, before stropping and maybe a tad better than the stropped Dilucot edge. The shaves are just as good.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
That's just how it is for me too, the unicot delivers great hht result with very little effort
When I dilucot ( which is just about all of the time) the hht is still very good, but a little behind
The unicot, stopping makes up for this however and I find very little between the 2.
Of course the shaves off both are excellent.:thumbup:

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 

BlueDun

Well-Known Member
Bart said:
Laurent,

If I can pop hairs off a finished Dilucot edge, even relatively close to the holding point let's say 8-10mm, and if the edge has stopped improving from more work, I always call it good enough.

Oh boy ... there's still room for improvement left for me .... :cry: :cry: :cry:
 

Disburden

Well-Known Member
This morning I had a very good shave off the tonsorial gem, three passes, no pulling. I know I may have spent more time than needed on the dilution phase but I think it was worth the risk. The edge feel is totally different on your face, not what I'm used to, it feels dull but its sharp? lol. I don't know how to expllain it but its sort of like that, its definitely easy on the face.
 

Paul

Well-Known Member
Nick,

You described it just how I do, and that's what I love about a coticule finish on a razor. Congratulations. It sounds like your test was successful :)

Best,

Paul
 

Disburden

Well-Known Member
I am going to try this on another razor from my rotation after work today and see how it goes. :thumbup:
 

jfdupuis

Well-Known Member
Nice to hear that you are doing well with the Dilucot. I shaved this morning with one of my razors done with the Unicot and it gave me one my best shaves yet. Very very sharp and super smooth. I was actually in a bit of a rush and I got almost no irritation from my one pass shave. I could do two passes, but that would not leave enough stubble for the next morning :p

I'll probably try the dilucot method this weekend when I have more time.

Cheers,

JF
 

chti_lolo

Well-Known Member
Congratulation Nick,

I have also tried to shave again with my "bad" razor (mediocre Dilucot + CrOx on balsa),but got again bad result: not very smooth and some irritation:cry:

Bart, what I called a good HHT was at a bit more than 1cm from the holding point + with thick hair, if you call it poor HHT... there 's a long way to the top for me:cry: :cry: :cry:
Bart said:
When properly stropped, such an edge will easily pass the HHT much further form the holding point (4-5cm and more). And the shaves are excellent.
definitely I have to change my strop or to learn to strop :cry: :cry: :cry:


Regards

Laurent
 
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