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I have to say....

Disburden

Well-Known Member
It's be a long journey with me and my coticules since the beginning. I have owned maybe a dozen since I've started shaving with a straight razor and I sold many off thinking they weren't "good enough" to hone a razor on. In the past two weeks I have only used coticules to hone my razors, I only own two coticules now one vintage combo and another a la Verte stone, but I have had very good results as of late. I used Bart's method of dulling the razor and then starting for scratch on the razors I've been shaving with daily. I feel ignorant in thinking that maybe these stones are too variable to hone a razor and only some are fine enough. Thanks to Gary in PMS on other forums I have learned a lot, if you see his posts please follow them as they are very informative. They may be the most helpful of posts I have seen other than Bart's. Bart helped me back in the day learn how to hone my razors but I feel maybe I have strayed off from these stones in the past year or so. I've been using Norton 4/8K as my stand by stone, but now I feel I may not need it anymore. These past few weeks have been nothing less than the best shaves I have ever had with only using a coticule as a hone.


I will add the following tips for those of you that may be frustrated:

1) Patience is a huge key when honing on these stones. They are natural stones and they're all different, you really need to use these stones and figure them out for yourself. The ways of honing on these stones is a simple guide you see on this site or youtube, you need to figure out your own stone.

2) When you can shave arm hair but the shave on your face isn't good enough, you're almost there. Depending on your stone you may just need water and a few sets of half strokes on water to deliver a good shave. Once I can feel a hht of 1 or 2 I move to a strop and strop the heck of out the razor, without paste, usually the hht will hit a 3 or 4. When I say strop the heck I mean 60 passes on linen and then the same on leather.

3). Do NOT rely on slurry TOO much because if your stone is a fast one you will dull the razor on slurry and have to start all over. When I first tried Bart's method I was using a La Nouvelle veine, I didn't know it then but mine was really really fast on slurry and slow as heck on water, this lead to very poor results when following Bart's dilucot on his video...I had to modify my honing a lot on my stone and I didn't realize it. A lot of what you need to achieve will be on water only after a hht of 1 or 2.

4). If you have a very slow coticule it's probably best to hone on a 1K stone until you've set the bevel to shave armhair well and then move to a coticule with a very light slurry for the rest. I used to use a dmt1200 BBW with slurry and then a coticule on water for this but had problems. My issue was that even BBW stones will vary some and you may be using too thick of a slurry on your BBW!

5). Any edge to set with these stones will not need a paste if you're hitting the limit right. What I mean is that if you're going to paste to get a nice shave then you're not finished on your coticule. Please put the pastes away and use pressured half strokes on water until you get a good result. If it takes a week of honing on half strokes with water to get there it's worth it because you will learn your stone more than just hitting pastes as an Alternative.



I hope this helps some people..

nick
 
Great post.

I've been honing Kamisori on Coticules of late and getting excellent results. I find that while I like the aggressiveness of edges achieved on Japanese naturals I also like the smoothness of the coticule edges. Totally subjective but Coticules are a formidable alternative.
 
Nick,

I, for one, appreciate this post. I hope now you can appreciate a bit better why the notion that coticules are too variable and scarcely are "good enough" for honing is irritating (to put it mildly) to some of us. Good stuff :thumbup:

Best regards,

Paul
 
Your post is very frank Nick exposing your experiences without fanfare noting the coticule diversity.Nice post my friend.
Best regards
Emmanuel
 
I must echoe these sentiments completley, the coticule is indeed a tester of men's patience.
I have had my best edges using Bart's hard soap method on final stages using a la grisse bout.
I must confess though latley I have been bridging the keenness gap using jnat hone which I'm learning and liking very much.
I do this mainly for expedience and convenience as I like consisntecy and am not known for my patience. Whilst I applaud those guys with the skill to get consistently good edges from cotcule, I feel daily shaving shouldn't be made unnecessarily difficult and paste occassionally is fine to (for me).
This excellent post has given me resolve to practice more on this marvelous tool and do my utmost to acquire the skill, if however I need my back up stratergies now and then to get the job done, then that's fine to.

Joe
 
Very good post Nick.

I too must echo those thoughts, since purchasing my Coticule that is the only stone that I have used. The edges are wonderfully comfortable.

Best Regards,

Lu, is back
 
From HHT 1-2 to 3-4 with just stropping, I don't hear much of. I'm sincerely glad it works for you. 'Wish it did for me as well.

The part I connect with is the patience part. I've seen the patience pay off more than a couple times, so I wouldn't dispute it. A couple edges landed around the same place w/ other methods, but with MUCH more patience and work.

I can only guess the coti nay-sayers either have never had the work pay off, or that it seems too much work for what other methods can get more quickly. Paul speaks of 20-25 min. for a blade. Wow. I still need a calendar :)
 
try pressured half strokes, about three sets of 40 strokes each side if stropping isn't working for you. Then strop on linen 60/leather 60. If you're getting a hht of 1 or 2 you should get better results if you try this a few times.
 
At the end of a dilucot w/ the dressante, I fairly consistently get a 3. 2-3 on the LPB.

I'm hearing the extra 1/2 strokes w/ some pressure are on water only? (Thank You in advance).

Would this be the process for all grinds? or just the hollows?
 
pinklather said:
At the end of a dilucot w/ the dressante, I fairly consistently get a 3. 2-3 on the LPB.

I'm hearing the extra 1/2 strokes w/ some pressure are on water only?

yes water is correct (Thank You in advance).

Would this be the process for all grinds? or just the hollows?
 
pinklather said:
At the end of a dilucot w/ the dressante, I fairly consistently get a 3. 2-3 on the LPB.

I'm hearing the extra 1/2 strokes w/ some pressure are on water only? (Thank You in advance).

Would this be the process for all grinds? or just the hollows?

Yes, that's right. Don't go back to slurry the lpb will be too fast and the slurry willl work you backwards.
 
i found tat on my lpb, as soon as i go back to a hint of slurry, i can totaly loose any sign of hht, its weird but that is what happens. the slurry must be realy powerful to set my edge back that easy.

gary
 
Nick & Gary, Thank You!

I typically would stay w/ water, and add, flush the lpb every 15 strokes or so. The part I'd not tried was pressure when using water only.

I tried it a bit on a very hollow (duck) last night - it did seem to work well.

I'm glad I have the experience, even if infrequent, of the coti giving exquisite results. It keeps me from a false conclusion that they don't work. Though the jnat, with its variable grit slurry can be a handful to learn, I've found the coti much more demanding. I so appreciate the kind help here.
 
i found the j nat worked well with dilucot. the j nat does not in my limited experiance , seem to have any slurry dulling going on. thats why it may be easier.
gary
 
Coticule Garnets don't break down like Jnat slurry "Flakes" do. So it's much easier for a big garnet to cut chucks out of the edge and round it off again....Can you imagine how amazing it'd be for a coticule to have break down slurry? :D


garyhaywood said:
i found the j nat worked well with dilucot. the j nat does not in my limited experiance , seem to have any slurry dulling going on. thats why it may be easier.
gary
 
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