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* Inconsistency

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Can I just go slightly off topic here, and try to discourage the use of the word "honemeister" for those that don't know, it was actually coined as a piss take, it was meant to refer to guys that lacked experience but still considered themselves experts, iirc. Either way it is actually a disparaging term, there are even guys who are damn good at honing, that would argue over whether it should be classed as a highly skilled activity, it's not rocket science, many would have the masses believe that it is, but take it from me it is not.

Rant over, please carry on ;)

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 

danjared

Well-Known Member
tat2Ralfy said:
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Hahaha. I have several friends who are rocket scientists. One even works at NASA mission control (yes, in the big room). But, I can't think of one who could hone to save his life. Most of them can code faster than I can, though!
 

wdwrx

Well-Known Member
Bart coined the term "sharpeneer", and I just love that turn of phrase. It has connotations of "buccaneer" which makes me think of glory and adventure, and exploration and buried treasure, and is light-hearted enough to to suit a guy like me who has a hard time taking people as seriously as they might like:D
Being a professional tradesman, the last guy I want doing something for me is the guy to whom it is all just routine and a way to make a buck. I'd much rather have someone who glories in the wonder and has an unabashed curiosity about the true workings of the universe than a guy who is trying to get a job done as quickly as possible.

***dammit, now where'd I put that Captain Hyperbole picture:w00t: ***
 

Paul

Well-Known Member
Drybonz said:
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That's an interesting question. My recollection differs from Ralfy's, but he may well be correct. My understanding is that Lynn was first dubbed a "
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" by Ray Dupont, founder of Classic Shaving, who regarded him as an expert. Others who fancied themselves good but not THAT good started calling themselves "
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", which became a pejorative term amongst the other "
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".

The better question, IMO, is why call them anything? There are some who love to be called "
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", but I don't think it's necessary. No one calls Bart a honemeister, yet no one doubts his expertise... The same can be said for many guys here and other forums. I can't think of a single person who is called honemeister who isn't honing for a fee, but I submit that doesn't necessarily make someone an "expert" or a "professional". Laborers provide work for a fee, but they aren't necessarily "
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", which means more to me than just "someone who makes money by doing something". Gentlemen typically enjoy the reputation they deserve without the need for such designations as "
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".

I wouldn't judge anything based on the work of someone else unless I had shaved with and could vouch for them... on that particular effort. Even the guys who hone the most recognize that their work isn't "perfect" every time. There are other "meisters" that I certainly wouldn't use as a "benchmark"... Bart, on the other hand, I would... Ralfy (on BBW :p ), ditto...
 

danjared

Well-Known Member
In a pinch, the noun I would use would be "honer", even if some people might give me funny looks for inventing a word. But I also think that anyone who uses a straight should learn to hone for himself, damn it.
 

Drybonz

Well-Known Member
richmondesi said:
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Well, it would just be a lot easier to have a word for those people you just described using two paragraphs. One word is a lot more efficient. I was using honemeister to describe them... but if that is considered more of an insult, then I was just looking for a better term.
 

Paul

Well-Known Member
Drybonz said:
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It's not considered an insult. It's considered praise, but many of those called that term are far from worthy of its true meaning. Why not just say "respected member/honer/razor man/someone who I wouldn't let touch my razor/etc."

I didn't take two paragraphs to describe anyone. I gave you a backstory. If you didn't want it, that's fine. :)
 

Drybonz

Well-Known Member
tat2Ralfy said:
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richmondesi said:
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I think meanings are becoming more and more unclear here... richmond, I'm sorry... I really did not mean to imply that I did not want your backstory, and anything you say, is, of course, welcome to me. I was just trying to say that a simple term to describe the people you (and I earlier) were talking about would be convenient.

Every trade and craft has a term to describe the most highly regarded and skilled, usually professional individuals... for example, in fine tea it is "tea master"... the term honemeister seemed to make sense to me until is was just suggested that it had an underlying connotation.

Anyway, to resolve this for myself I'm adopting "hone master" as my official term. :)
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
"Meister" is a German title for someone who followed a long and formal education and training to reach the highest level of competence in a certain craft. The same word is used in other languages to describe someone who combines both knowledge and skill to distinguish himself in his art. There are the Old Masters of Art and Painting, there are Maestros in Music. All these titles suggest an extreme form of respect, as was expected by be paid by the pupils they educated. The term master cannot be disconnected from a teacher-pupil relationship. A master is someone who as acquired a level of authority in his field that is beyond any doubt or questioning.

It suggests long term professionalism. An amateur can never be a "Master" in my opinion, and if a bunch of hobbyists are starting to hand out titles like this, things start to look like children's play. In that respect, I've always found the word "honemeister" caries a particularly schmuck connotation. (That statement has nothing to do with my troubled relationship with Lynn Abrams, I found the word out of place long before that happened)

I also refuse to consider razor sharpening to be an independent craft, worthy of "masters". If is one component of Barbering, or of Pogonotomy, in the case of guys who only shave themselves.

Kind regards,
Bart
 

BlacknTan

Well-Known Member
I spent 45 years plying my trade, so I'll add my thoughts.
All trades have a pecking order, and the monikers assigned denote where an individual exists in that order. Apprentice, journeyman, Master all are very descriptive in determining where one resides amongst his peers, and there are definite levels of mastery on the skills involved, and in some trades, those skills can be considerable and far reaching, not only in the manual sense, but cerebrally also.
Some apprentices will never arrive at journeyman, just as some journeymen will never arrive at Master. Some just have more God-given talents than others, and some may have chosen the wrong area of expertise to enter... we're all good at something. Sometimes the trick is more in finding where one's aptitudes lie.
Lynn Abrams may very well have earned the term "honemeister," in the vernacular of the Old Country, or Honemaster, of whatever one would want to call him. He appears highly accomplished at his chosen craft, seems to earn his living by it and by all accounts, is revered by his peers. His personality, whether one likes or dislikes it, has little bearing on the skills he has attained.
I'm a blue-collar devotee! No diplomas or degrees hanging from these walls, but I had talent in my area of expertise, and attained the pinnacle of respect from my peers, and the PhD's I did work for.. Sometimes not an easy crowd to please, but gentlemen who were intelligent enough to recognize abilities in others... Even abilities they themselves were not given.
I made a pretty good living at it also. We were well compensated in a place of higher theoretical and practical endeavor. They may not have always liked us, but they were smarty enough to realize that they needed us.
So, while "Honemeister" may not be the correct term, it does reflect a certain level of expertise attained... and sometimes hard won.
I'm never comfortable demeaning or downplaying the deserved accomplishments of another, even in areas where those accomplishments are not as highly valued in today's society. I'm aware of just how much skill, dedication and years of work and study those accomplishments took to "Master."
 

Drybonz

Well-Known Member
Bart said:
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Bart... thanks, you have an eloquent way of always shedding a logical light on any given topic, which I think everyone appreciates. :)

I think there is a certain modesty in the above statement, coming from someone who is considered a master of the craft, by novices, such as myself, that contrasts an individual who might be a "self-proclaimed honemeister", and I can see where you are coming from on that.

I do think that there are people within the craft/hobby/art/act of sharpening a straight razor, that a novice considers a mentor/master/person whose work is a benchmark/highly regarded honer... and surely, if there are people who are novice, then there must also be the master. :)

I don't mean to sound argumentative at all... I find the discussion interesting.
 
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