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NO LUCK SO FAR

medic484

Member
Only my third attempt and I should'nt count the second because that was an old true wedge Ill just stick to the newer razors for now, anyway I cant get past the first stage. This time I used a dovo 5/8 and could not get it to cut arm hair and failed the thumb nail test after 5x and I checked each time I was using the unicot method

Do you need to rinse the stone between passes if theres a swarf accumulation

is my slurry thick enough

am I putting to much pressue on the blade and causing swarf and a dulling effect

The bevel under magnifacation looked like it had been sand blasted not stiated as Im used to,here are pic only way I could figure out how to post'm
http://s131.photobucket.com/albums/p316/medic484/COTI/

cotihalfstrokebegin.jpg
slurry.jpg
slurryandswarf.jpg
cotihalfstokeend.jpg
 
You MAY have your slurry a bit thick. I'm n expert on this by any means, but from my understanding, you want it to have the look and consistency of milk. Bart will chime in I'm sure and set us all straight :)

That's the problem with the internet: You can't really understand what it should be like unless you can actually SEE and observe how it works on the razor.

But, I guess that's the price we pay :p
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
I think your slurry may be a little thick. It wants to be like milk, also how many 1/2 strokes are you doing and how many sets? it would help to know how dull the razor was when you started too, was it shave sharp and you just dulled the edge by gently drawing it once over glass? or was it like a butter knife? sometimes it takes me quite a few sets to get the edge shaving arm hair, and remember thick slurry will indeed dull that edge, so add a drop or 2 of water as the slurry thickens or dries out.
The shot blast look is spot on, thats what slurry does to the bevel, the stirations come as you start to polish the edge.
Good luck and have fun Amigo
 

Smythe

Well-Known Member
Maybe I'm wrong here but... I'm inclined to believe it's not enough slurry... or just about right.

Now I know too much slurry may dull the blade... but does it dull enough that the edge will not cut arm hair?
But then, I have never set a bevel on a Coticule.. cant afford to waste those precious granets.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
I have found if the slurry is to thick there's no dout it will prevent the edge shaving arm hair. There is no arm starting out with a thicker slurry and a little pressure to speed things up. Once you can feel and hear the edge grabing your hone you no you have the making of a sharper edge. Then i go to milkier slurry by adding water and perform normal x pattern with normal pressure, then try shaving arm hair, you will notice a big differance. Your slurry looks a little dense, also your slurry does'nt look that darkened so maybe your not using enough pressure.

I can remember doing aproxamatley 10 sets of back and forth strokes, 30 laps at a time and could not shave arm hair. I new somthing was'nt right i added water to my slurry, carried on honing, just 20m laps and i was shaving arm easy, it was ovious my slurry was to dense, there for restricting my edge. hope this helps
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Check this out:

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This Blokes done a few I know..lol

Hope this helps Buddy, and try the lighter slurry, as Gary said I use a thick on for doing heavy work e.g. shaping the bevel, removing small frowns etc, then add a few drops of water until it looks just slightly too thin, you will be amazed at the difference it makes, and as said every time, you will just be wasting your time if you try and move forward before the edge shaves arm hair, the better you set that bevel at that stage the easier and better your finished result will be, if you check the edge with your mag after you get it shaving arm hair, make sure there are no micro chips too, these can mislead you, TOP TIP: if your microscope has an led, try turning it around i.e. so that the part that normally faces the ceiling is pointing down, the difference is lighting can highlight either the edge or the bevel, try it.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
medic484 said:
Only my third attempt and I should'nt count the second because that was an old true wedge Ill just stick to the newer razors for now, anyway I cant get past the first stage. This time I used a dovo 5/8 and could not get it to cut arm hair and failed the thumb nail test after 5x and I checked each time I was using the unicot method
Patience is the big factor here. If your blade was truly dull and convexed, it may take a long time to establish flat and fully developed bevel sides. That would be true, regardlless the hone you use. I see on the pictures your slurry turns black instead of gray. I haven't figured out why, but so far I've only witnessed that on faster Coticules, which is good for you in this case.

In the assumption that the razor really needs serious bevel correction, I'd make the slurry a bit denser. Sort of like coffee cream (Once you have gained more experience, you'll find yourself getting a way with thiner slurry). Just hone away with half strokes and finger pressure till the slurry is completely black. Keep it from becomming grainy by adding a drop of water every now and then. Don't check too often. Let's say: every 5 sets of 30 halfstrokes on either side of the razor. Before you check for arm hair shaving ability, add another drop of water and do about 20 light X-strokes. Keep at it till the razor shaves arm hair. On a razor that's just dull from shaving, it may take 5 minutes, but on heavily pasted razor, or ones that have been lying around for years, etc.. it may take me over an hour (I usually jump to a DMT-600 in such case, but it can be done on a Coticule, and it's good practice.)
Once the razors starts shaving arm hair, it's time to make the slurry a bit lighter an complete your heavy bevel work on the kind of slurry seen on your picture.

Don't proceed with the "taped" steps of the Unicot procedure before the razor shaves armhair along the entire edge. (I presume that the edge was rubbed once over glass to remove all shaving abilities, that is: if it had any to start with).


I 'm not wishing you good luck, 'cause that has nothing to do with it.:)
Enjoy,
Bart.
 

medic484

Member
Great info guys Ill go back and use these tips, the razor was pretty sharp when I pulled out of the "razors Im not using now cigar box" and I ran it three times on a bottle to dull it and perhaps too much. Did some one load the pics? thanks and how do I do that for next time?
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
3 Times!!! 'strewth Mate theres your problem buddy, you started with a butter knife. lol I would keep up the 1/2 strokes as said until your cutting arm hair, do you use marker pen on the bevel? I would, that way you can easily see how its developing. :thumbup:

I believe Mr Smythe sorted the pics for you, theres a thread here somewhere explaining how to do it.
 

Paul

Well-Known Member
I am glad to report that my thoughts were in line with Bart's... must mean I'm learning something here after all.:D
 

rayman

Well-Known Member
Bart and Gary have very well described what you should be doing. When it comes to the slurry, it does look to me like you need more, but the consistency looks to be about right.

Consider milk. You have skim, 2%, whole and coffee cream. I start out on my No.2 with something between whole and cream. After I have developed the bevel and the blade can barely cut hair, I move to 2%. The skim milk consistency is used, if needed, during the final stage. If that helps.

I also noticed in the photos that your finger is in the middle of the blade. If you continue to leave it there, you will never get the blade sharp. Move your finger to the spine and keep it there. When you press on the middle of the blade, you are most likely bowing it, causing the leading edge to raise ever so slightly off the Coticule. Thus, you will keep honing and never get an edge as long as your finger is there.

When you check the edge and bevel with your 60x you will see what looks like a sandblasted edge. That is normal. Be more concerned with the integrity of the edge though. It should be perfectly formed and even. Each time you check, make sure you look at the whole edge from one end to the other. Otherwise, if you wait until you are completely finished to check the whole edge you might find a microchip somewhere and have to start all over again. Now, this has never happen to me......right, so save yourself some time and aggrivation.

Ray
 

medic484

Member
I was thinking that my finger might be placed improperly thanks, I rehoned the dovo on synth stones and will lightly run it once on a bottle then let the forum know the outcome
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
I check my edge now and then with 30k loop. I never noticed any microchips, what is the main cause of micro - chipping?
 

rayman

Well-Known Member
When you breadknife the edge, hold the razor by the pivot pin between you thumb and index finger. You can't put too much pressure on the blade that way. Make one pass and feel the edge. If it is not dull, make a second or third pass. When you can run your thumb down the edge, it is ready.

Using too much pressure when doing this can damage the edge. The edge is very delicate and improperly dulling it can cause you more time then you like.

Ray
 

rayman

Well-Known Member
garyhaywood said:
I check my edge now and then with 30k loop. I never noticed any microchips, what is the main cause of micro - chipping?

I can't be sure what the absolute cause is but I can tell you when I run into it.

I have seen microchipping happen when the spine is worn down and the angle is rather shallow. I seems to happen then only during the final finishing process. I have thought that perhaps the edge might be extended a little further than normal, and the finishing stone crumbles it. I have also seen this happen using pastes and sprays. I know you probably don't have a clue what the hell I'm talking about here but I can't come up with the correct words right now.

The other times I see this is when there is some pitting going on and you don't realize it until you get the new edge to it. This situation happens more often than I would like it to.

Ray
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
The other thing i noticed, i have two coticules, my nu 3 a very fast cutter. my nu 21 is moderate. I have used my nu 3 for a lot of honings, i have found thick slurry and would never be able to shave arm hair, slightly milkier and no probs.

I have honed only six times with nu 21. Thickish slurry, i can shave arm hair. This coticule shaves arm hair much better of thicker slurry. It's realy the oposite, i would say the more you work with your coticule, you will start to no how it works best, and get to no your slurry, and how it reacts.

Why this is may be there is more garnets in the slurry of coti nu 3, and less in nu 21.

I use dilucot method all the time. I am finding i can use a lot less laps now, as i have a better feel for sharpness. The set amount of laps is a real good guide in the acadamey so stick at it and keep practicing, you will learn and notice somthing differant with each honing session.
 

rayman

Well-Known Member
Gary,
Excellent description. This is something that just has to be worked out by each individual and their stone. Bravo.

Ray
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
I love my nu 3 coti, but this nu 21 i just done my second blade, same again thiker than normal slurry. I was shaving arm hair in no time,passing hht of hone easily on both razors.I'm going to do a 3rd razor. My DA i will see, also less laps agian. May be this 21 refines quiker with it being slower cutter.I will report back.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
Same result with slurry, hht ok of hone, passable.

I honed the other two razors with one layer of tape, as they are getting a little worn.
This was the there first honing on tape, i'm certain thats why i got such a good , better than normal hht. Due to them both having a new bevel. So even though i fully honed, i have created a secondry bevel. I think!
 
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