Question about a strange bevel

[TM280]

Hi,

I hope someone can help me with an explanation. I am honing a razor for someone else, a Solingen full hollow Jaguar (rather old). It was sharp and in fine shape, but when I looked under magnification I saw a pronounced secondary bevel. I assumed this was from long term use of pastes. So I dulled on glass and took it to a 1k hone to quickly flatten out the bevel.

This didn't happen. After some time and no air hair cutting, I realized that the hone wear was increasing and stopped. The secondary bevel was still there, though smaller. So I put tape on it and honed it up in 10 minutes.

What I am confused about is how did these two bevels get there? I am thinking that the first bevel may be the factory bevel, but if the secondary bevel came from honing with tape, why would it be so difficult to correct? Or could the convexing of the bevel be so extreme that it would take the equivalent of years of spine wear to flatten it out?

Thanks.
regards,
Torolf

 

[Bart]

I don't know the speed of that 1K and how much pressure you used, but I have honed more than a few razors that were so pronouncedly convex that it took a decent amount of work to restore a flat bevel. When I have a visitor for a honing session/lesson, I usually put my stereoscope on the kitchen table, to allow the visitor to monitor the sharpening process. Often these are fairly inexperienced straight razors users who kept their razor going for the first few weeks of shaving with a lot of less than perfectly executed stropping on pastes. Whatever works to squeeze out another mediocre shave. You get the picture.
In these cases, with the visitor at my kitchen table, I often decide to stay on the Coticule where I would normally go looking for my DMT-600, or more recently, for a stellar natural Cretensian hone that Emmanuel send me a while ago and about which I hope to report more soon. It has occasionally taken me an hour to complete the bevel job, which doesn't bother because there is plenty to talk about with the visitor anyway, and these guys are always surprised about 2 things:
1. how they can really see the new bevel grow under the scope as it replaces the old one.
and 2. how it takes less than 5 minutes to finish the job once the bevel work is done (and less than 2 minutes, if I show them Unicot )

The short version of this story is that a seriously convexed bevel can take a lot of work, and the closer near the end, the longer it takes, because the more steel needs to be removed.

Kind regards,
Bart

 

[Emmanuel]

Hi Torolf .I don't disagree with Bart at all .But i need a clarification before give my opinion.
Is the secondary bevel the yours? Without tape that is impossible except the razor was honed on a convex hone which is very very rare. Looking forward to your reply.
Best regards
Emmanuel

 

[tat2Ralfy]

I would have to say that a seriously convexed bevel can take a lot of work, and the closer near the end, the longer it takes, because the more steel needs to be removed.

Hahaha (sorry couldn't help it)

This is bang on how it is for me, when I see the hone wear increasing, or the job is taking too long, I tape the spine and give it some on my 400 grit until it passes the thumb nail test, then my 1000 until it shaves arm hair, I remove the tape, and dull the edge on glass before going to a Coticule, it's amazing how much work it can take to remove a badly convexed bevel, especially if it's a wide one.

Emmanuel my friend, I believe the second bevel was in place when the razor first came, meaning someone had already used tape or paste etc on it.

Kind regards,
Ralfson (Dr)

 

[TM280]

Thanks for the answers! I'm glad it's not just me. What surprised me is that the razor was reacting as if I had breadknifed it

It's a little irritating, and a good case for using a touch up hone regularly... As I see it, if long term maintenance with pastes causes this, then it is detrimental to the razor, otherwise one is locked into using tape. I have read rumor that some barbers hone with the spine raised, I need to ask this fellow what he has been doing.

I assume that this razor has been kept up this way for years (it is a barber's razor...). An odd reflection is the necessary spine wear which appears. It's as if you can't cheat the steel. All the wear that "should" have been there, takes its rightful place during bevel correction...

Hi Emmanuel, I say convex because this was clearly not a low, flat secondary bevel such as we get with unicot. All I did to it was to dull on glass. It behaved much more like when one uses a 45[sup]o[/sup] to hone out chips and then begin to set the bevel. Since I doubt that the owner was using an extreme angle on the razor, I assumed there was convexing due to paste use.

regards,
Torolf

 

[Bart]

The spine wear can be avoided by resetting the bevel with tape. Of course you'll still need to undo the slight bevel angle increase caused by the tape, but that is not nearly as much work as dealing with a heavily convexed bevel.

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[Emmanuel]

A Greek ,two years ago sent me a new inox dovo for honing. After one hour job on 1200 i saw that the edge had a secondary bevel maybe 45 deg. I could not believe my eyes.Do you know what i did.
Bart knows.I have an artificial stone to make thicker or thinner my Tormex wheel 80 grade ,yep i repeat 80 grade .I flattened the edge by this.The edge after the 80 grade hone was like a saw,but finally a arrived to a good edge avoiding a lot of job. I called him and i asked if tried to hone his razor before.I have been informed by the fucking Greek that had honed his razor without the spine touch on the hone,like a knife.I suspect that something similar happened on the Torolf razor.
Best regards
Emmanuel

 

[TM280]

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Ah, yes, of course. I didn't think that far...

I am noticing, Emmanuel, that previous misuse of some razors I see bothers me (not that this particular razor was misused, I still think it was paste...). Rust or a cracked scale are just the effects of time, but it's disappointing when something has been done to a razor that can't be undone.

regard,
Torolf