"Smoothest" edges: La Nouvelle Veine and La Grise

[tzee]

It was stated in avatar1999's thread concerning Coticule identification, that La Nouvelle Veine provided the "smoothest" edges out of the three Coticules in question: a vintage, La Grise, and La Nouvelle Veine. Who has used both, and what are your impressions?

I've been under the impression that they are closely related, with La Grise being the "smoothest."

(EDIT: Gary, I forgot that I asked nearly the same question in your "mellowest edges" thread.)

 

[garyhaywood]

while i have neither of those, i just got a la vainette just 3 weeks ago maybe 4. Also i have just got a la grosse blanche, which are renown for the mellowist edges. I shaved of lv and it was smooth. i did 50 laps on lgb, and to be fair i could not say there was any if much differance. Just a very nice edge still. we had this discusion just the other day. most of us seem to think there is very little differances. the differance is in the honers hands, or how the edge turns out on that particulr honing, not the hone its self. Amaxed out coti edge will be smooth either way.

gary

 

[tzee]

Gary, I'm glad to hear that you had a chance to use your LGB. That was the other Coticule in the list of three (La Grosse Blanche, La Nouvelle Veine, and La Grise), that I understood to be in "smoothest," or "mellowest" categories. So based on your experience with it and your La Veinette, you don't see much difference?

(EDIT: Gary, I forgot that I asked nearly the same question in your "mellowest edges" thread.)

 

[Bart]

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Full agreement.

Let's put it this way: several of our members (inluding myself) own more than one Coticule. I'm sure we all agree that there is difference between these hones. I am equally sure that we will also agree that these differences primarily translate into differences in feedback, speed, ideal honing routines. But I do not believe that there is any Coticule owner that can recognize his Coticules by shaving blindly with the edges they produce.

I also think that, inspite of all precautions, the three designations "brisk, engaging, mellow" are, Paul was right with an observation he made a couple of days ago: some read the those 3 objectives as good, better, best. Perhaps even as keen, keener, keenest.
Nothing could be further from the truth.

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[garyhaywood]

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i've not long done, a full dilucot on my dovo special, with the la grose blanch, despite what i have read , that they are hard to reach a god hht on, luckerly i manged an exallant hht. i will shave of this razor and report back? i have just honed over the LV ege which shaved very well. so i will now copare and let you no? so stay tuned.

gary

 

[garyhaywood]

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very well worded , and you took the words right of my mouth.
gary

 

[tzee]

I did not see those edges in those terms. To me, keenest is not the "bees knees" when it comes to a razor. Actually, I usually want to avoid that because it will most likely end up irritating my skin. I prefer more of a balance of keen and smooth, with precedence for the latter.

My interpretation of Bart's original classifications were more of brisk = slightly harsh, mellow = just that, engaging = in between, leaning slightly towards brisk.

Finishing is the key here. If I was focusing on heavy bevel work, I could care less. Now, if I could enjoy the speed of a fast cutter on slurry, and a slow smooth one on water, then that would be my preference.

 

[garyhaywood]

brisk does not = harsh, bart will explain beter than me or paul?

gary

 

[Bart]

Brisk does not equal "slightly harsh". I'm not a native English speaker, but I deliberately chose terms that I did not relate to often used shaving properties such as "harsh" and "smooth". Coticule edges are all smooth, but that smoothness can take slightly different incarnations. I just shaved -minutes ago- with a brisk edge. I also happen to have gotten a hair cut today. And it strikes me now that the feeling actually has similarities. The fresh headed feel while driving my bike home from the hairdresser, and the fresh feel at the cheeks after my shave.
The difference, of course, is the hair on my head and the total absence of that on my cheeks.

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[tzee]

I should have said slightly harsher than mellow, being keener. I looked up brisk again, which is "keenly alert," or "pleasantly tangy."

 

[Paul]

Well said, Bart.

I'll also add that there are some who use "crisp" to mean something other than excellent... I'm not exactly sure what they mean by it because my dictionary defines the word in only positive terms: of weather= cool. fresh. invigorating; of a substance= firm, dry, and brittle (especially in a pleasing or attractive way ~ crisp bacon); of paper or cloth= smoothly or attractively stiff and uncreased ~ a crisp $5 bill; of manner of speaking= briskly decisive and matter-of fact...

Brisk in my dictionary (with regard to weather)= cold but fresh and enlivening...

I'm not going to argue the point with anyone who wants to use it that way, but for the sake of any readers who happen across this, realize that I use crisp and brisk interchangably (like how I read their definitions) while others classify: Brisk=good; Crisp=Somehow not so good ie, "too crisp for me"

 

[tat2Ralfy]

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I couldn't agree more myself :thumbup:

Also as one of those that (miss) uses the term crisp at times I totally have to agree with Paul on that one too

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)

 

[garyhaywood]

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just shaved of LGB dilucot edge.this stone was sold to me because the chap had more luck with his hybrid coticule.the edge and shave i just had was every bit as ken and good as my hybrid. smoothness was second to none, in comparison with my LV hybrid la grose jaune and my lpb, the smoothness was very similar, Itell you now it would be hard to seperate them. keeness was very good beter than i got from my lpb, i must try lp again, i reckon i could get that keeness i needed. I would recomend a lgb or lv or lnv i don't think you could go wrong with ay of them. maybe easier to get a LV

thanxs gary

or stick with what you have ad it will be just as good in the end.keep on honing

 

[Pithor]

You bunch of nitpickers, or in good ABN: mierenneukers :

I really have nothing relevant to add since I've only shaved with razors people said they finished on 'a coticule' and the ones I did on my La Veinette. No notable difference. Going to try out the razor I freshly honed on my new vintage(?) coticule. I'll let y'all know

 

[tzee]

Thanks for the feedback. LGB sounds like a fascinating stone indeed.

Thus far, I've enjoyed mellow shaves off of a La Nouvelle Veine, and a La Grise. They are both great Coticules, however the La Nouvelle Veine requires more effort out of the box.

 

[tzee]

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Thanks for the feedback. LGB sounds like a fascinating stone indeed.

Thus far, I've enjoyed mellow shaves off of a La Nouvelle Veine, and a La Grise. They are both great Coticules, however the La Nouvelle Veine requires more effort out of the box.

 

[garyhaywood]

if it was me i would start with a very light milky literaly skimmed milk slurry on the lnv, this will reduce the slurry dulling, and give a better chance of max keeness. worth a try, use some mild pressure during honing and dilute with tiny drop of water and up your laps to 30 from start to finish , then normal x strokes o water etc. If this works , try 25 laps next time , if that works drop down to 20. you will get to no what works that way.

 

[Deckard]

I've always used 30 laps start to finish.
I do 10 at 45 degrees, heel. 10 at belly to toe, and 10 toe corner to corner and really roll the blade (thanks Gary)
I over engineer everything, so what, at least I'm dead sure ther previous scratch pattern has gone!
I also use a lot of pressure and roatational torque into the hone, squeeky sound drives the wife mad.
I do finish on very light strokes though at water stages.
I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it works for me

Joe:thumbup:

 

[justalex]

I've thought about shifting my pressure/slurry ratio too, as my stone occasionally dulls when I'm bevel setting. Using more pressure with lighter slurry seems like a good idea.

 

[life2short1971]

I have one of the recently mined La Grise and and I can say tht it is a very smooth edge. I can see LGB, La Nouvelle;and La Grise equalling in smoothness but I just don't think its possible for them to be any smoother. Once you get in touch with your stone it becomes very easy and it just kinda " clicks" and all of the sudden you start suddenly producing edges that are nice and you do it repeatedly which is the nicest part. You know when you are done that its gonna be nice. Stick with it and it will all come together. Its just a matter of finding what technique works for you. I am heavy handed so what works well for me may just work ok for you if at all. When it comes to the stones its more you than the coticule.