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suggestion for a second coticule and help to identify mine

stalker

Well-Known Member
hello friends! i m a straight razor user from rome, i have bought my first coticule several years ago, and after i've discovered this site i m falling love, but i had not understand how to use it!!!
i d like to buy the second coticule, i want a real small kosher jewel, please suggest me and help me to identify my own coticule (check the photo). i'd like to bought or la petite blanc ,or la veinette (or?????) 100x4 cm.....do you think that is so short to perform a confortable honing??

.p.s. i have sended 3 days ago several email at maurice (ardennes coticule site) but after three days i had non reply....it is normal?? very strange..

thanks for all.
1
 

BlueDun

Well-Known Member
Hi and welcome to this cozy place!

That is a really bautiful stone you've got there. Makes Tigerlilly come to my mind ... ;)
Bart will possibly be able to tell you more about that piece.
And about that "kosher" thing. You should not put much emphasis on a hone being kosher or not. That label will have nothing to do with the honing quality of the stone itself. Do a quick search and you'll find more about that kosher voodo.

Cheers
BlueDun
 

Gunner777

Well-Known Member
Welcome and that is an unusual beauty of a stone! I'm of the same opinion that a Kosher Coti is no better or worse than any other. It's honestly an urban legend type deal that they are better than any other Coti IMHO:)
 

Matt

Well-Known Member
Yup. Read some on kosher stones
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. Maybe you'll save some cash in the end. ;)

Hey, that's one damn beautiful stone! Actually, what do you need the second one for? Maybe try to master yours first, unless it's too short for comfortable strokes. How long is it?

Getting two Coticules for learning is like driving two cars freshly after getting your driver's licence. Both will do their job, but you make the learning harder, and have more chances of making mistakes. I myself bought two at once, :lol: - but actually I mainly try to squeeze maximum from just one.

regards and good luck,
Matt
 

stalker

Well-Known Member
it's long 15x5 cm, and it is great as finishing stone, it s very hard....

i d like to have a second smaller with other cutting quality..i want a small jewel, or la veinette or la petite blache,
100x4 is too small?

thanks
 

Gunner777

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't think that would be to small---just my opinion but everyone has a different method and need. I saw one the other day that was 4 inches wide and 8 inches long which to me is way to large but to each his own.
 

stalker

Well-Known Member
do you have any idea because mr maurice celis at ardennes don't respond at my email?? generally the reply is fast?


i m unable to order on line because "la veinette layer " is not mentioned in the on line shop....and have a bit higher price then selected quality as said by maurice.
 

chti_lolo

Well-Known Member
I have contacted Ardenned-Coticule (through the contact age of their website) for a La Veinette sometimes ago. Maurice answered me quickly that he had to find one in his stock.
Then I had to wait for 2 months before he found one for me ( I think these stones are quite rare and that there is a lot of demand). I also know that Ardennes will change sooner their selling policy. For more details you can read this post
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Hope it helps you

Laurent
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Hi Stalker.
Welcome to Coticule.be

Excuse me for the delay in replying to your thread. It's been quite hectic lately.

It is a beautiful stone you have, from the La Dressante layer, one of the upper parts. The ones I've seen with such red stripes were usually quite fast on water only and moderatelay fast on slurry. (note that "fast" on water is still much slower than "slow" on slurry, it are different scales) They leave very fine edges, and for your shaving comfort I don't think you would need another one. But I know how it is, the are beatiful and many people buy more than one razor, and the step to a small Coticule collection is easily set.
Nevertheless, I would advice to postpone a purchase before you have fully explored the one you already posses. With that said, a La Petite Blanche would probably be different enough for you to have fun figuring it out and for noticing an ever so small difference in the resulting edges. Impossible to predict which one of both you would prefer, most likely it would be a matter of "taste of the day" rather than a general preference.

If you want a prompt answer from Ardennes, it's best to place an order through their website and state your wishes in the "additional remarks" box. That gets you into their system, and you will receive an answer. Ron Celis takes care of that. If you contact Maurice, there's always a chance that he can't find the time to immediately answer and forgets about it later. The man is always extremely busy, you must pardon him for that.

4 cm is wide enough. Even 3 can be used very well for razors. But 10 cm really is on the short side. You can get away with it, but I think you'll regret it. I would try to get one of 14 cm at least. Often they have bouts with nearly parallel long sides, which work extremely well for razor sharpening and have a lot of extra character.

Best wishes,
Bart.
 

stalker

Well-Known Member
thanks for the reply bart, ...it is too late :blink: i have already ordered a 100x4 veinette layer, i have selectet the 100x4 because when i hone on my la dressante 150x50, i always perform the strokes in a small part of the hone.(it is an error?)on about 7- 10 cm and also because i'd like to have a small jewel hone....do you have any particular advice to perform the stroke on this small surface?


my la dressante seems to be hard, with milk slurry consistency i develop a good starting bevel after about 80 halfstroke, for finishing (depend on the razor) 80 x stroke seems to be very good, after that i perform 50 stroke on the MASTRO LIVI loom strop,
(this strop is very fantastic!!!) the results is a very very very keen and buttery edge, i have tried also the karasu japanese hone but it doesn't give me the same "buttery feeling" it left a keen and crispy edge compared to coticule....
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
stalker said:
thanks for the reply bart, ...it is too late :blink: i have already ordered a 100x4 veinette layer, i have selectet the 100x4 because when i hone on my la dressante 150x50, i always perform the strokes in a small part of the hone.(it is an error?)on about 7- 10 cm and also because i'd like to have a small jewel hone....do you have any particular advice to perform the stroke on this small surface?
You'll be fine. Short strokes work too. It just takes longer. When I work on particularly short hones, I often find myself doing a sort of circles than textbookstyle halfstrokes. You can see me do all three variations (halfstrokes - circling halfstrokes - X-strokes) it in this Youtube video:
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Kind regards,
Bart.
 

stalker

Well-Known Member
bart, when you perform the halfstrokes do you shift the pressure from heel to the point? I've always one problem to the heel, that seems to be not developed well.Generally when i perform the halfstroke i made this :
bevel setting : 20 halfstroke i perform the first 10 with a bit pressure on entire the edge,after that 5 halfstroke with heel pressure and the last five with point pressure....
for the dilucot same scheme...

"la veinette" compared to "la dressante" is a different hone?? the finishig stage quality is similar?




thanks bart for the patience....
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
I always have a bit of roll in my strokes, just a pressure shift on straight edges, and a minimal roll on smiling razors.
If part of the edge stays behind, I don't have any problem with putting my finger on top and working a bit on that part only. Just keep an eye on these parameters and you'll be fine: the curve of the edge (you don't want to create a frown) and the balance between both bevel sides (which may require to do a couple more laps on one side than on the other. I seem to rely quite a bit on how the fluid runs up the edge, as I found out during the Coticule Weekend, but I guess it takes time to learn how to interpret such observations.

Concerning the finishing differences between both hones: well, you tell me once you've figured them both out. I personally find the differences between one Coticule and the next typically much smaller than the differences between various razors, or the differences that can be caused by certain beard preparation strategies.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

stalker

Well-Known Member
for "roll" you would mean a bit oscillation for heel to point?

i always look if the slurry cover the bevel it is a great indicator..that assure me the blade contact point...

thanks
 

Matt

Well-Known Member
Stalker,

This is from: Coticule Sharpening Academy / The various strokes used for razor sharpening (the main menu above).

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So, rolling is basically starting a stroke with a point lifted up, gradually going to horizontal position and continuing this move by lifting the heel at the end of the stroke.

Here you have a superior elaboration by the Bartsman himself:

Bart said:
Here's my secret for doing rolling halfstrokes: The rolling motion has to come from the upper arm. Right now, while you're sitting in front of your view screen, allow me the illustrate that. Lift your right arm (if you hone right handed) and raise your fore arm in front of you, parallel with and above the spacebar of your keyboard. Mimic holding a razor. Lift your elbow while lowering the wrist, and alternate that motion, lowering the elbow while raising the wrist. Tell your wife to mind her own business.
The motion you now did is the basic motion that is added to a half- or a full X-stroke to get a rolling stroke. The amount of roll can be very precisely controlled by how much the elbow is raised and lowered. Note that this motion is automatically diminished at the razor, because the elbow sits on the long end of the cantilever that has your pols as a fulcrum.
I hope this makes sense somehow. A lot of people perform the roll by moving with their fingers. That works well for the X-stroke, but not for halfstrokes because the finger on the blade interferes with that technique. Put the roll in your entire fore arm, and not only you will be able to use the same rolling technique for X-strokes and halfstrokes, but you will be in better control as well.

Hope that helps.

regards,
Matt
 
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