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The HHT in real life

BlacknTan

Well-Known Member
I've read countless times that the HHT is an indicator, but not the final word.
I've been doing reasonably well correlating my results from the HHT using the hair from my head, with what the razor can be expected to deliver on my face, and it usually corresponds very well.
Then, I bought this La Petit Blanche from Gary. It's every bit as beautiful as he said it was, and also the perfect size for hand holding, 125x40mm, just as Gary said it would be. So, being the anxious sort that I am, I've been playing with it since it arrived, but there has been a surprise... The HHT is a slight bit lower, but my face tells me that the razor is a slight bit keener, or more face friendly, or whatever, but the razor cut's whiskers like nobody's business. I can tell as soon as the blade touches my face it's sharp, but the HHT belies that fact. My face however, feels like I basrely shaved, and the alum block, a good acid test, provide minimal burn..

If the blade is as sharp as my face tells me it is, why does it not prove out on the HHT?
 

DJKELLY

Well-Known Member
Just another reason to use a thicker hair if you ask me, Bill. With a thicker hair you can also track the progress of the edge refinemnet easier.

As for you particular situation, it is the same as with the hone I got from Chris, and no, no grief this time, as I am almost out of material. It might (heavy on might) be that you have such a mellow edge that you can go after the little boogers more without fear. It also might be a smoother, less toothy/aggressive edge with the new stone.

What is the stone you have been using? Again, it just might be the difference between a brisk and mellow finisher. D
 

SliceOfLife

Well-Known Member
HHT is an imperfect science. The most obvious example is microchipping or very coarse teeth making a razor pass easily... but these imperfections exist even at higher finishes. The "Split/fileted hair" result for instance, is supposed to be below silent fall and even pop. I've got razors that could split atoms that filet hairs regularly. The general rules are a place to start and are offered to help, but don't get too caught up in them. Everyone's hair, razors, and stones are unique. You have to learn how to best use HHT yourself. For instance, I learned holding the hair backwards and only just found out. I've tried it a few times "the right way", and I don't like it. I learned one way and I don't want to relearn another.
 

pinklather

Well-Known Member
'had a good example of counter-evidence this morn. 'Shaved w/ 2 razors, boker, dovo. Boker was water-only finished. HHT was okay but not great. Dovo, was finished w/ liquid dish soap, and was more willing to op hairs and do it more quickly. The boker shaved better. Neither shaved as well as they both did after another 30 circles on an asagi. (I'm not very good at coti finishing yet).

But when I first tried an asagi finish, it did okay, not great on TPT, and did lousy on hht. HHT was really no help at all w/ that stone. It was a shave test or nothing. Even lousy performances on both tests gave outrageous shaves.

C12k finishes would lop fine head hair silently - but the shaves were harsh/crispy.

Now that can also mean I've not yet learned to make the test useful with my hair, and it's simply a matter of more learning. There will be alot of counter-evidence to overcome for me to be convinced.

Denny's counsel to use thick hair sounds like it has potential. Chest hair is much thicker, and can show when things are getting close. With the c12k, I'd use thick chest hair (.0033") to see if I was close, and fine head hair (.0018) to determine when I had arrived. Arrival w/ that stone never gave me smooth without crox.
 

BlacknTan

Well-Known Member
Denny,

I had been experimenting with a La Grosse Blanche, and that was a bit more crispy than this La Petit Blanche, and popped fine hairs more reliably, but the edge feels keener from the La Petit Blanche on my face, even though the HHT performance is not quite as good..
Understand, I'm not complaining about anything, but the HHT was becoming a somewhat reliable indicator, until this stone came along to confound me... and my results.

I'm heartened to hear that everything is not linear, and that others have, perhaps a similar conundrum.

Thanks for all the helpful replies..
 

DJKELLY

Well-Known Member
Bill, PL, I find that with thick hair or even arm hair, when an edge is really ready, you can feel it during its slice through the hair or through arm hair. It is a silky feeling of slicing through rather than a pop or drop. Another check is to cut the skin on the tip of the thumb or a callous in a very thin filleting manner. It will make a super fine "shaving" like a perfectly tuned plane through fine grained softwood. All of these are just secondary indications to the shave test. Denny
 
G

Guest

Bill is two o clock after m.night for me .To morrow i ll post two sharpness test coming from my heritage knowledge hoping that will help every mate.
Best regards
Emmanuel
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
As with any indirect test, the HHT must be correlated to the hone you use.
On Coticules (and BBWs), it's more or less linear accross all specimen. More or less, because indeed, slight variation exists. But this doesn't matter when you know your hones and you have a calibrated hair source (this means not a hair that you harvest of your body or out of a brush when you need one, because there will the amount of natural oil on the hair will vary and that makes all the difference).

Between various types of hones, the HHT-reading can show much more variability.

Ian is right about doing it "your own way". If the hair source is steady, after using that La Petite Blanche a couple of times, you'll know exactly when to call it ready for stropping and a test shave. With practice, the TPT can tell you exactly the same. It just is less mentioned on this forum, because with the HHT, we can talk about these 5 levels and get an idea what you are talking about. The TPT is a good test, but its results are nearly impossible to put in words.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

pinklather

Well-Known Member
Dennis, thank you! The other shave test, and shaving some thumb skin sound like they could help.
I appreciate that.
 

rtedwards

Active Member
My HHT results took a huge step forward when I got a long lock of hair from my daughter's hairdresser as a consistent source. This hair is 10 inches long (25 cm to you metric types) and quite straight. I'd like to meet the woman it came from-:love: it is a beautiful black, mostly uniform hank of hair, and enough to last me a lifetime. But even so, there is some variation from strand to strand and day to day, so I calibrate the response with a carbon SE or DE blade I keep on a magnet above my sink. This allows me to calibrate the response of any one hair with a known edge, which really helps. It also helps me find the proper end to hold when I drop it, which I frequently do being clumsy and all.

But even so it isn't perfect. Ian's point is a good one, I still get annoying microchips on some blades, which throws off the HHT. But since I can't shave my arm hair under any circumstances, even with an SE blade, and the skin on my thumb is apparently devoid of nerves, I am left with only the TNT and the HHT.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
BlacknTan said:
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I'm glad its working well for you bill. It is a lovely little stone. David (rictic) said he has'nt quite hit the hht he'd like. I did find the hht of that hone not as vibrant but all the same the shave was nice. I use the hht all the time. To much somtimes . It's like i won't except any thing less. often i have to except less. somtimes the hht can be amazing.

This is what i have also found. My HHT 5 plus hav'nt always been my smoothest shaves. my HHT 3's have been smoother, it s weird. i just think i get to obsessed with the hht.i found the la vainette i did have to be one of the hardest to acheive a high hht. Now the shaves of that hone were very mellow. the shave is truth and you will soon tell if all is not right. In all fairness you have got to be passing some kind of hht to no your near..

Gary
 

BlacknTan

Well-Known Member
I may also be taking the HHT too far, Gary, and I've found taking meaurements with my micrometer, that all hairs, even from my head, are not created equal. The fine hairs from my head vary by perhaps .0005 inch. The thicker chest hairs, which I harvest very sparingly because of their scarcity, also vary from hair to hair, but they're usually .001" thicker than head hairs.
I honed the razor I used today with the La Petit Blanche. The HHT with head hairs has been similar to what I have been getting with other blades off this stone. Chest hairs pop visibly and audibly, and the shaves off your stone have been my mellowest yet.. Very smooth and very impressive, and surprisingly just as close as the other stones! It doesn't seem to make sense to me, that a blade that appears less keen, shaves just as well, and even smoother. It seems counterintuitive, but I'll take it!
While I'm learning that there is much more to different stones than meets the eye, I'm also discovering the same about the human hair.
So, while I may or may not be "there," I think I'm awfully close!

And, I'm very taken with your little La Petit Blanche.. And, as you advised, the size is near perfect!
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
BlacknTan said:
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i newster use chest hair as it was thicker . Mine was a little to curly and thick.I use stomach hair for quikness before a shave somtimes, as they are medium. You need to get a reliable source of hair and use the same batch. you find even in a batch of hair that some will be slightly thicker. I try the thicker ones first. That has to do the pop and catch. then i will grab a medium hair and hope fully that will pass, may be a little closer to the holding point. This is of the hone. oviously after stropping you should see improve mant. mentaly if i'm not pasing a1 hht i think oh this aint going to shave that well. Its not all ways the case. Somtimes it is the case. The other thing is some razors respond so well to hht. I just got my self a crown wing from raspur. now beleive this or not the tpt on all the razors i got including this one have no stickiness unles i realy dig my thumb on to blade. The hht just slips away from the cutting edge. Unless its say 5m or so from the edge it grabs the hair and realy chomps it in half. i no why because the razor has been honed on 8k naniwa and finished on diamond paste. the shave was surprisling very good a little harsher or should i say crispy. I still liked the shave enough to shave with. Infact i just gave it 30 laps on coticule it seems a little nicer. btw what a nice razor to hold and shave with i'd seriously recomend one.

i've also found that all coticules with certain names work just like any other coticule. when i got my la vainette and lpb i thought these will be easy to get an edge . i was wrong i actauly found my la vainette the hardest to hit a hht.I have another one coming in the post soon and we'll see how i get on with that one. i sent my last one to dennis witch is from the same batch as mine , i'd love to hear how dennis gets on with that one.

gary
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
btw bill my best hht with the lpb was using more strokes in the half sets say 20 to 30. I started out with a realy milky slurry i did'nt use a lot of pressure just enought to keep the razor on the hone.I diluted with only small droplet of water .I mean small due to the size of hone. If need be just dilute every two sets not every set.I also felt this hone was joy to hone on, the feel is qaulity. as for auto slurry .As for honing on water you can remove metal only with with pressure and half strokes. normal light laps there will be no slurry developing that is see able. Its defanatley moderate on water not slow. fast on slurry .

dilute much slower see how it goes.thats all i can say realy as i did'nt work long enought with it to master it.Due to many other coticules. And not so much honing nower days.

gary
 

DJKELLY

Well-Known Member
Not so much honing recently, Gaz. Seems like you need to buy a few razors. I will certainly let you know about the stone when it gets here. I still haven't even seen the Livi strop, but I have been at the GF's for the past two days, so it may have arrived. I doubt it.

Not much honing? I don't like the sound of that. Cheers, D
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
well i'm waiting on my la vainette . i have a couple i'm going to try it out on. the strops taking its time. it should be there soon i hope.

gary
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Have you tried much with that little boxed [small]thurry[/small] Gaz? I got mine from Jay and to my face it feels like the Escher and the Coticule, as we said I do not believe that in a blind test anyone could tell the difference.
I might start a thread about it?

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 

danjared

Well-Known Member
tat2Ralfy said:
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After all this talk about them, I got one recently from Ian (SliceOfLife). The only difference I could tell so far is that I'm more likely to cut myself. I have only tried it on one razor, though.
 
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