ShavingUniverse.com

Register a free account now!

If you are registered, you get access to the members only section, can participate in the buy & sell second hand forum and last but not least you can reserve your preferred username before someone else takes it.

thinking of upgrading my honing equipment...

chti_lolo

Well-Known Member
For the last three monthes, since I got my first hone a La Veinette (150*50), I have made a lot of progress thanks to the help of coticule.be members. I succeeded in Unicot and got some good success in Dilucot. But I still have problem with the finishing stage of dilucot : I can always cut a thick hair (chest hair) at 15mm from the holding point but whatever I do : some laps on chromox and additional X strokes on water, X stroke on shaving cream and shaving soap lather, use of Gary's tricks, watery slurry on BBW then finish on coticule with water.... I can't improve the result.
The best results I get were on razors with no warp at all. So I am thinking I'm at the limit of my shaky hands and think of buying a new narrower coticule with maybe more feedback in the finishing stage (I have difficulties to feel the abrasive effects or the draw) which could be complementary to my La Veinette.

Any suggestion of size or layer?


BTW: as to make a global order to Ardennes-Coticule, is the BBW side of a La Veinette suitable with the "new" honing procedure on BBW, or are there better candidates?

Laurent
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
i would say you have a perfect size.

i have a 200x60mm la vainette, i no what you mean by water finishing. it feels like the hone is doing nothing, btw i love the feel on this hone it is silky smooth with a nice sound as its working. i've not done much honing on mine , i have had some very nice shaves of the hone. they say its the easiest hone to get get a good success rate on dilucot. i always go by hht, before i will shave i have to have a goood 4hht. and i have to say i have found it bloody hard work on this hone to acheive that. I actauly came to the conclusion that this hone gives a les hht but possibly the shaves will be still good.

how are you finding the hht of this hone..
 
G

Guest

Hi Laurent.
I think that you can get a superb result with your La Veinette.If you havent a good result using the crox that means never created a decent edge in the previus stage .I dont think that
with another layer or size you ll succeed a sharper edge.I think that you have to put your movements more balanced .
Un rasoir coupe choux il faut faire patience et incistance.
Rgds
Emmanuel
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Hi Laurent,

How much different is your Unicot result from your Dilucot result?
Did you ever get to the bottom what I thought to be a stropping issue?

I'm posing both questions, because I'm not entirely sure that another Coticule purchase can solve your problem. The finishing properties between Coticules are really only very minor. If there's anything 'd dare to claim, other that those 3 words I use "brisk, engaging and mellow", then I'd say that the mellower hones a more difficult to get the desired keenness. But in order to get the smoothness, that keenness is an absolute condition.

Since you're in France, we could however do a little experiment. I'm going to Ardennes, probably on the 14th of this month. I can select 3 or 4 narrow Coticules of different layers and ship them to you. Whatever you like, you keep and pay to Ardennes, whatever you send back to me, I'll put them in the next Vault.


In the mean time, you should try honing on the narrow side of your Coticule. (It's a combo La Veinette, right?). Don't worry about honing on yellow and blue at the same time, just make sure that the surface is flat and the edges are chamfered well.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
G

Guest

Bart sorry for intervation you are absolutely correct but i would prefer rounded edges and not
chamfered is more safe.
Best regards
Emmanuel
 

chti_lolo

Well-Known Member
garyhaywood said:
Please, Log in or Register to view quote content!
Gary I'm still a beginner, I can only get a bad HHT-4 on thick hair (chest hair) after stropping. On hair (my "head" hair or the thin blond hair of my daughter) I only get HHT-3. I also think La Veinette hone is an easy hone but maybe not in the finishing stage.

emmanuel said:
Please, Log in or Register to view quote content!
I have used crox after coticule (40 laps on a 12,5cm long balsa hone) and I got good results something more like a HHT4. But what doesn't work well is when I do 10 laps on crox (sort of progressive honing) and then 30 X-strokes on water, this doesn't improve the edge. I am quite sure also that my movements are not well balanced (especially my rolling X-strokes) : je suis patient mais peut-être ai je deux mains gauches.


Regards

Laurent
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
chti_lolo said:
Please, Log in or Register to view quote content!

I agree with the La Veinette, its my favourite layer, and my "Go to" stone, however if you dont get things pretty close, you will really struggle once it comes to finishing.

The Balsa/Crox hone should give you an instant improvement after 10 laps, if you are doing much more than that, and still not seeing any improvement then I believe your edge was far from being nearly there, I very rarely use mine now, but there was a time when I would finish on the Coticule, and if the HHT was less than 4, I would give it 10 laps on my balsa/Crox, this would always improve the HHT at least 1 point, and from there I would go back to the Coticule with water for 30 laps, this final stage kept the same great HHT, but smoothed the Crox edge off nicely, when I visited Gary a while back I showed him how this worked for me, and we both agreed that its a good time saving method.

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 

chti_lolo

Well-Known Member
Bart said:
Please, Log in or Register to view quote content!

I can get a good HHT3 (or maybe a bad HHT4;) ) on my daughter blond hair at 15mm fromm the holding point with my unicot edge (so not a great result) with my best dilucot edge (very flat blade with no warp) I get the same result whereas with the other razors I got a good HHT3 at about 10mm (maybe 8mm) from the holding point.
But in the finishing stage (before stropping) of dilucot I have more than HHT1 only on thick hair.
As for the strop, I think I will also buy a russian leather hanging strop to see the difference (something like
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
)

My la Veinette is rectangular so I can't test the narrow side. But I feel the BBW side is more easy to work on : the blade seems to stick on it.


I really appreciate your kind offer and would be very glad if I could test a few hones or only one (if it 's not a problem for you) which can cope with my problem of finishing stage and awkward rolling X-strokes.

Thanks a lot

Laurent
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
tat2Ralfy said:
Please, Log in or Register to view quote content!

ralfys right it did work. if i read corectly 40 laps on balsa hone is way way to much, i could imagine this many laps to ruin an edge or make it very uncomfortable , 10 to 20 at the max 20 is to much, like ralfy says any more than 10 laps and your edge was way behind.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
i newster use chest hair and found it unreliable as its was to thick, mine that was. i have some strong but not overly thick hair for of the hone and i use the finer stuff after stropping , i gently lay the hair onto the edge with no pressure at all, when it pops in half this way and also half to two or even three inch away from holding point i no i'm going to get a great shave or somthing very near. i just have not got the same result in the hht of my la vainette, or though i still get a good shave , like i say i've not realy worked on this hone much and only shaved of it 3 times.
 

chti_lolo

Well-Known Member
Gary,
The balsa hone I use is one I have made myself ( I don't use handamerican crox powder but grated livi crox dissolved in alcohol and then I paint my hone with 3 coats ) so maybe my hone is not as efficient as Ralfys'one. After 40 laps I can get a good shave and an increase of the HHT. But after when I tried to do 30 X strokes on coticule with water my HHT decrease and I get the same score as before crox.


regards

Laurent
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
i have livis loom with the same stuff. i'm sure ralfy uses the livi crox on his balsa hone,
so after the balsa hone your hht tames down to a less hht, have you compared the shaveof balsa, then after coticule?

if so was there any differance ?

my guess would be coticule edge has tamed the edge and thats why hht is not as responsive, i have a feeling the hht of the la vainette could be more tame due to the smoothness, from the hone. ralfy can answer thatv has he has lots of experiance with this layer?

gary
 

chti_lolo

Well-Known Member
garyhaywood said:
Please, Log in or Register to view quote content!
That's the kind of great results, i'd like to reach but I know I have also to upgrade my technique.

I have good shaves with my honed by myself razor, quite as good as my professionaly honed razor but we don't play on the same level.
 
G

Guest

chti_lolo said:
Please, Log in or Register to view quote content!

Hi Laurent
I agrre completely with Garry and Ralf. 40 strokes on the crox is to much .Thats overhoning.You cant overhone on the coticule even you perform 200 strokes but on the crox over than 15 for me is overhoning.You create a bar that cuts well just for half face but not more.Going from the crox to the coticule it is not to improve is just to be more established the edge. But if the hht redused thats deux mains gauches.So you need more practics.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
it was when i got my razor honed by bart i realized what a coticule edge was suposed to be like. bart will tell you i even emailed him and asked if he used some kind of special coticule, which i no he does'nt but at the time i thought bloody hell that is smooth edge. thats what kept me at this whole coticule thing. i find i still get the odd edge that feels amzingly smooth and some thatshave don't pull but don't have that same feel of ultra smooth, its just how it goes, the main thing is i no what to exspect. for example i took my silver wing yesterday, its beeen shaving great but the best it ever shaved was when i got it right on my la grosse jaune about a year ago. i have messed with it redulling etc and never realy had the same level of smoothness, smooth but not what i call magical. i did 30 laps yesterday on water on my la grosse jaune , stropped and shaved tonight , i could'nt beleive it was the same razor . so its back to how it was a year ago magical. i'm not rehoning this one again . i don't no how this happend may be i gave it just the right amount of laps that it needed , it was pure trial and error.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
chti_lolo said:
Please, Log in or Register to view quote content!
With HHT-1 you mean the violin, right?
It's typical. I'm becoming more and more convinced that it's not so much the dilution itself many strugly with when learning Dilucot, but the actual finishing stage, where we need to squeeze out that final bit of keenness that makes all the difference.
If you arrive at HHT-1 after dilution and you're first finishing attempt, that's not too bad. I still happens to me too, from time to time. And then it takes all kinds of further finishing attempts to get it right. That's when I'm ever so glad for the HHT, because at least, it keeps me from jumping back and forth between test shaving and more finishing. I think the difference between an experience Coticule user and a less-experienced one is often primarily based on the former's trust in the stone, the cinfidence that he'll eventually get it right, and the knowledge that it makes no sense to strop the razor and test shave with it before it passes his personal standard test (for me that's HHT-3 on a medium hair at about 15 mm of the holding point).

The last few months, I've been searching and searching through all my small finishing variation, if there wasn't one that could be optimized to make the quest for keenness a bit easier in a consistent manner.

I believe that I've finally come up with something. I've already briefly shared it in another thread, but I know these things take time to kick in. It was no different with the "improved Dilucot". :) Anyway, it elaborates on a old theme: lather.

Your razor must pass HHT-1 very clearly, or even better, pop thick hairs at 5mm from the holding point, otherwise, what I'm about to suggest won't work. It does not speed up the hone, quite the contrary. However, It does seemt to push the keenness barrier a bit further, which gives you a larger landing zone, so to speak.

Once the razor is at that stage, and no matter how many additional X-strokes on water you make, it doesn't seem to make any difference, grap a hard puck of shaving soap, and a boar brush. Load the brush with luke-warm water. Shake it out gently and start loading the brush with soap. Load it very well without going overboard. Coat the Coticule with a thick lather, the kind of lather you would add water to if you were lathering your face.
Now, start honing with X-srokes (rolling ones if the razor demands it). Soon the lather will dry out and form a slick film on top of the Coticule. It's more a kind of burnished sheen on top of the stone than anything else. At that point, add another 30 laps and check again with the HHT.
Please let me know what happens? :)

chti_lolo said:
Please, Log in or Register to view quote content!
You won't regret that one. :thumbup:
chti_lolo said:
Please, Log in or Register to view quote content!
I'm not sure I understand that. There's always a narrow side to work on, I'd think. Have you shared a picture of that stone in an earlier thread, where I can see it?

chti_lolo said:
Please, Log in or Register to view quote content!
It'll be my pleasure, and a small favor to return for all your help with the translations. I know they're not published yet, as it's still a work in progress. Please e-mail me your address, to ship the hones.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
By the way...

The lather method works for me, I am sorry Bart I meant to say I tried it and it did improve the HHT ;)

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
Top