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Trying a shapton 30k

Emmanuel

Well-Known Member
A greek friend sent me a Shapton 30 K for trying . But before I continue I would like to clarify that I have no need to discredit a product or a manufacturer, I just think that I am with you to report my honest posts either positive or negative.Firstly i honed an edge on coticule having a clear HHT 4. Continued with 10 laps on 30k nothing changed.Continued with 30 laps on 30k ,the HHT reduced to 3.I performed 30 laps more on 30k the HHT reduced to 2.I rinsed the blade returning to coticule performing 60 laps on water .The HHT jumped to 4. I repeat two times the same cycle giving to 30k the opportunity to be good,but it gave me exactly same result.Then with a HHT2 from 30k i strop the blade giving an HHT4. I shave with this edge a part of my face,i did,nt endure more .I had the worst feeling so far. I leave the conclusions to you.
Your friend
Emmanuel
 

Paul

Well-Known Member
Emmanuel,

My experience, pretty extensive, with Shapton 30Ks is that they quickly have a detrimental effect after 5-10 strokes. If you stop on your coticule at roughly HHT 3, give it 5-10 laps on the 30K strop and shave... It's pretty decent. It's actually quite good when following a progression of synthetics, in my experience. However, I prefer a coticule edge.

Regards,

Paul
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
I did the same with 12k naniwa. i lost some hht after say 30 to 40 laps. i returned to coti on water and the hht was right back. the shave was also very nice. i reckon 10 to 20 laps with 12k would be enought depending where the edge was of the coticule.

gary
 

Emmanuel

Well-Known Member
As you say Paul ,you prefer the coticule edge.Me too.After coticules exists the chaos.
Best regards
Emmanuel
 

Emmanuel

Well-Known Member
Ok Gary but if i have a clear HHT4 from coticule ,what is most needed.
Best regards
Emmanuel
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
I have never honed with one, but a friend sent me a razor to try that was finished on one, absolutely hated it, far to harsh for me, as you say Coticule HHT 4, is all that I need for a wonderful shave.

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 

Emmanuel

Well-Known Member
Agree Ralf .As said after coticules Chaos.Do you know the word? Its a Greek word.where is Bart that likes this word style?
Your friend
Emmanuel
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
If you want to give the Shaptons 30K a fair assessment, try this:

Hone a razor to perfection on a Coticule, without using any tape.
Add 2 layers of tape and make 30 of the lightest possible laps on the Shapton.
This will create a secondary bevel that carries the maximum keenness and exclusive properties of the 30K.

Keep us posted.

Kind regards,
Bart.

PS. I'm moving this thread to the appropriate section.
 

Paul

Well-Known Member
Seriously though, it doesn't take very many strokes before you start getting adverse effects once the maximum keenness is reached.
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
I second that, the shaptons are ruthless, I would be wary of going past a dozen light laps, what do you think Paul?

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 

rayman

Well-Known Member
No more than 8 period. In fact, I would try 5 and see how it feels first. If you need to adjust, you have some room left.

Just my 2 cents.

rh
 
hi

While we don't carry the Shapton line and anyone whom knows me likely knows I'm firmly amongst the exclusively coticules set at this point in life, I have sent razors to one of N. America's best-known Shapton espousers to have them honed from tip to tail with the series and was taken aback at how low the 'coefficient of beard friction' was from the razor returned to me. I can't replicate it with coticules, but I'm always learning...

I didn't prefer it to my best coticule edge, mind you, as on my face it left lots of red dots (like I get from the Feather straight). But the HHT results before the shaves were pretty much a 5, and it did shock me that the razor could act that way on the beard, almost moving on its own. I can't exclude the possibility some with coarse beards and tough skin could prefer it to the coticule, and I think fairest evaluation of it is to use their system from beginning to end so that the intersection of those bevel planes occurs at as low an angle as possible given the blade's geometry.
 

Paul

Well-Known Member
Your experience is similar to mine. The Shapton set puts an incredibly keen edge on a razor, and it forces you to really have a delicate touch. I prefer the feel of razors that seem dull but wipe whiskers away. That's attainable on the Shaptons, but it took some pretty heavy stropping for me to get it toned down a touch.
 

Smythe

Well-Known Member
Emmanuel, it is possible, after you sharpen the edge on a Coticule, the bevels are absolutely flat all the way to the edge (you are experienced with your honing abilities on a Coticule, so I suspect this is the case).

However, adding 30 laps on a Shapton, chances are you will get a “wired edge” (or over honing). So you may want to reduce the number of laps on the Shapton.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
Emmanuel said:
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I'd only use it if you need extra keeness and you carn't get that from coti. as a finisher you should need no more than 10 laps . try five first. I've heard and read most guys find the edge of 30k far to crispy. Some like. I don't think any one would need a 30k for a razor.10k should be more than enough.

gary
 

Jens

Well-Known Member
I've had long & very educational conversions about the Shapton 30K with the "Doctor of Shaptons"
Mr Tom Blodgett.
The 30K is surely an aquired taste, I happen to like it (only tried it when Tom honed razors for me on it though) but for good results you really can't go past 10 laps or so.
He often starts out with 5 & then does another 5 and so on.
If still cuts rather fast despite it's ridilously high grit.

I have another idea about this & I'm actually not sure if a coticule is the right stone before the 30K. The scratch-patters from a coticule is very different from that of a Shapton 30K.
And they might not mix to well together. I think that a 10K naniwa is a much better starting point & a 16K Shapton the best.

I've had similar things happen when experimenting with diamond sprays.
0.5 or 0.25 diamond doesn't work to well after a coticule for me, they are much smoother & sharper after a 10K or even 8K Naniwa.

I don't have anything else but my own experiences to back this theory up though.
 

Harvitz81

Well-Known Member
Jens said:
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I think there is some truth to this statement as well. As I mentioned in the Escher thread - I think it really matters what stones you use to progress before finishers. A coticule to an escher I think works great and leaves some of the smoothness of a coticule edge. I'm interested to see what synthetics to an escher does.

In the same way I think using naturals to then finish on a Shapton 30K might not be the best approach. I own a 30K and have never really had much success using it following a coticule. Eventually I would like to build up a synthetic progression to the 30K and really see how it works.

As Jens mentioned the scratch pattern from a coticule will be very different than that from say a Shapton 16K, which is normally used before the 30K.
 

Emmanuel

Well-Known Member
My friends,now my experiment result as Bart suggests.
I honed a Gotta on a coticule having a perfect HH4. I taped with two layers ( tape 0,13 mm)I used one blond hair 20 cm( of my belgian Patricia ) for all run.After 3 very ,very light laps on Shapton the HHT stayed same, 3 more same, 3 more same,3 more is redused between 3 and 4.
Then 3 more fell to a clear HHT3. I removed the tape and i rehoned on a coticule but this time i
stoped deliberately to HH3, adding again two tape layers.Now 3 laps on Shapton ,HHT stayed same,
3 more jumped to HHT4,3 more same,3 more same but at the last 3 laps redused again to 3-4 and after 3 more fell to a clear 3. Another observation, is that the Shapton surface seems much more rough than a coticule (maybe is the binder and not the cutting particles),also the honing signs becoming more intense as long as stay on Shapton.I know, that i love coticules , i started many many years ago with them and with them will leave, but here with my hand om my heart place as the Greeks say ,i post my honest evaluation.
Your friend
Emmanuel
 
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