unicot and dilute

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
Shaved with both razors this morning tryed the unicot method

And the shave was as good as it gets not harsh this time i must be getting the hang of that method very quik and easy method with no guessing if it going to perform unlike dilucot method which does work with patients. When i reset dulled edge with slurry i tryed to shave arm hair and even thought the edge felt sharp it would'nt my slurry had become realy thick so i thinned a tadge so it was milkier i did 20 halve strokes either side shaved arm hair straight away my slurry was too thick and restricting my edge.

The other razor i did dilute method my normal method i did finish on .5 diamond paste and chr.5 oxide just 10 on each and the shave was also great smooth shave this method takes longer but it can work realy well its still my favourite for some reason
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Thanks Gary.

I always aim for good sharpness with the Dilucot method. It's like Pole Vault (the Olympic sports). Some days I am better than others. In the beginning, I only very occasionally reached the desired sharpness. With more experience and practice, I became more successful in meeting my own standards.

Whenever I fail on the Dilucot, I'm never that far away from my goal. I use the Hanging Hair Test (HHT) to probe for sufficient sharpness, before I strop the razor. If I don't like the HHT behavior, or if it does not pass at all, I simply attach a layer of tape to the spine, and take the razor through the final stages of the Unicot method. That never fails for me.
 

slartibartfast

Active Member
Bart,

Inspired by Robin's frequent updates, i decided to play around with my coticule a bit this weekend.

I am a little confused on why you would choose the unicot vs dilucot method over one another.

The unicot method seems to be a bit easier to use and get repeatable results.

Once mastered, does the Dilucot method simply provide a better edge?


also, can either method be used in a progression. For example, if i want to hit my nakayma with a blade afterward.

Thanks.

--Ben
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
slartibartfast said:
Bart,

Inspired by Robin's frequent updates, i decided to play around with my coticule a bit this weekend.

I am a little confused on why you would choose the unicot vs dilucot method over one another.

The unicot method seems to be a bit easier to use and get repeatable results.

Once mastered, does the Dilucot method simply provide a better edge?
You have to realize that I do a lot of honing for other people. There is no valid reason that I can think off to avoid a double bevel on a razor, but still, many people prefer not to have them. I think they dread that they need to remember to reattach tape when the razor needs its edge refreshed after a fair number of shaves.

The Dilucot can give results as good as the Unicot method, but without the introduction of a double bevel. So I usually aim for a good Dilucot edge first. Razors with a very thin grind carry a very narrow bevel, and those razors easily reach the keenness limit you can reach on a Coticule. But the thicker the grind (an thus the wider the cutting bevel) the more challenging it becomes to get good results with the Dilucot. I happen to like a good challenge, and that certainly plays a key role in my habit to try a Dilucot first. The more you do it, the better you become on the Dilucot.
Problems on wider bevels were my inspiration for coming up with the Unicot trick in the first place. The procedure with the tape creates a narrow secondary bevel, and those can easily gain sharpness on a Coticule with water only.
But at the end of the day, a wide bevel sharpened up to the keenness limit of your Coticule, or a narrow bevel with the same keenness - secondary or not - will shave just the same. If your Unicot edges are keener than your Dilucot edges, that just means more practice at the Dilucot...:)


slartibartfast said:
also, can either method be used in a progression. For example, if i want to hit my nakayma with a blade afterward.

--Ben
Yes. Especially the Unicot method can be adapted to whatever finishing hone you'd like to use on the edge. Just replace the final step by a number of strokes on your alternative finisher.

Best regards,
Bart.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
When i have finished on dilucot method and lets say my edge is not up to par i would go say to the unicot method last stages. Would you still do 30 loight laps misty slurry and 50 laps water or just 30 laps water with layer of tape. Seeing as most of the work is done and there would'nt be as much metal to remove to create second bevel. what would you do bart.
 

slartibartfast

Active Member
Thanks bart.

I actually shaved with one of the blades i did the dilucot method on over the weekend last night. Very nice shave.


I need to start taking notes when I hone. I re-honed 7 blades on saturday just to screw around and am having trouble remembering what i did with what blade.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
garyhaywood said:
When i have finished on dilucot method and lets say my edge is not up to par i would go say to the unicot method last stages. Would you still do 30 loight laps misty slurry and 50 laps water or just 30 laps water with layer of tape. Seeing as most of the work is done and there would'nt be as much metal to remove to create second bevel. what would you do bart.
After the Dilucot procedure, the razor is already very keen. Keener than after the untaped part to the Unicot porcedure. Because it requires less additional sharpness, the secondary bevel can be kept very small. I usually do 15 laps on very thin slurry before finishing with 50 laps on water only. (As discussed in another tread I rinse the hone twice and do 30 before and 20 after, but that's only of minor importance)

I think these are all small variations that one picks up after gaining experience with these methods and after getting thoroughly acquainted with his particular Coticule.
With the right experience you can learn to remove no more steel than strictly necessary, but for those still learning the basics, I'd like to add that it really does no harm to do a bit too much. (other than waisting some steel). There's no real risk for "overhoning" on a Coticule.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
slartibartfast said:
Thanks bart.

I actually shaved with one of the blades i did the dilucot method on over the weekend last night. Very nice shave.


I need to start taking notes when I hone. I re-honed 7 blades on saturday just to screw around and am having trouble remembering what i did with what blade.
It's a good plan to take notes.

That said, you can easily discern between a Unicot edge and a Dilucot edge. Looking to the edge with decent magnification makes this obvious. There's a good picture of a magnified Unicot edge on top corresponding page of the Coticule Sharpening Academy. That one's easy to recognize. But even without magnification, the double bevel can easily be spotted with the naked eye, if you get in front of a good light source and inspect how the light reflects of the bevel. On a Unicot edge, there will be two separate points where the light reflects straight into your eyes. A Dilucot edge will have only one.

Best regards,
Bart.
 

PA23-250

Well-Known Member
I tried the unicot for the 1st time yesterday--a slightly stubborn, very light (no inertia to speak of) 9/16 ultra-hollow that needs every bit of sharpness to cut through my wire-brush beard.:) I had a marginal shave w/ it last time, so I gave the unicot a try. Had just about the best shave I've ever gotten out of that thing this morning! I'm definitely trying this again!
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
Bart said:
Thanks Gary.

I always aim for good sharpness with the Dilucot method. It's like Pole Vault (the Olympic sports). Some days I am better than others. In the beginning, I only very occasionally reached the desired sharpness. With more experience and practice, I became more successful in meeting my own standards.

Whenever I fail on the Dilucot, I'm never that far away from my goal. I use the Hanging Hair Test (HHT) to probe for sufficient sharpness, before I strop the razor. If I don't like the HHT behavior, or if it does not pass at all, I simply attach a layer of tape to the spine, and take the razor through the final stages of the Unicot method. That never fails for me.
Honed a dovo prima klang today which i have to say it's the best dovo i have shaved with and my favourite. I dulled the razor and honed on dilucot hht was easy a five and the shave was exallant very smooth paste would not make any differance to this one in fact it may ruin it.


My other razor was an older one with a wider bevel due to age. dilucot method again hht not as good as i like this time i added one layer of tape and finished with unicot method hht was better and the shave was to my surprise very smooth and a great shave. Now normaly i would hit the paste but unicot method worked atreat. So i would say that's the way to go just as you say especialy if yoy have no paste just use unicot double bevel

I am finding the odd razor just does'nt get there i'm working on a brandnew bismark 6/8 at the minute i did dilucot yesterday and the razor passeshht aprox 3 to just over but not like i exspect and the shave was fine no pulling but just felt a little gritty. Have you honed any of these bart? this time i will add unicot if i need that should smooth it out when i have used paste on the bismarks i have found it makes the edge more agressive i've owned two and they have both behaved the same
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
This actually belongs to the "Art of fine-tuning a razor". What I mean is that you can hone 5 different razors with exactly the same methods and skills and they all qualify as "plenty shaveready", but still you like some of the edges better than others. There are 2 variables here: 1.your face and shaving routine and 2. the characteristics of the razor.
Variable 1 demands that the only one able to fine-tune the edge, will be you. After all, someone else might have a completely different appreciation for the edges in our example.

You can try steeper bevel angles (Unicot), with 1, 2 or even 3 layers of tape. You can try various types to pastes and various models of pasted strops. You can try other finishing hones. And eventually you can also sell the razor and replace it with one you like better. I'm not joking here. Preferences are what they are, steel is what it is. At the end of it all, if you know a razor is well honed (shaving close and without pull), but you still don't completely like how it feels on your face, most likely no amount of additional fumbling will turn it into your favorite razor. Of course you need to give it a fair chance, by rehoning it a few times, but if it doesn't yield, think about how happy it could possibly make someone else.:)

I have honed several Dovo Bismarks. The all shaved smooth and close. I don't know if they shave slightly smoother or crispier than my favorite razors. To really know that, I would need to own one and use it for a while. Which I don't.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
the two i have owned seem very stiff and sound quite tinny when shaving with them the last one i had i tinkerd around with it between the bbw/coti and even though on one acassion i used paste it did seem worse but eventualy i got there but i carn't remember how. I will try double bevel if that fails i will give the old issards a whirl
 
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