ShavingUniverse.com

Register a free account now!

If you are registered, you get access to the members only section, can participate in the buy & sell second hand forum and last but not least you can reserve your preferred username before someone else takes it.

#26 arrived...

maro

Well-Known Member
... and I grabbed it two days ago. Hip hip hurray!!

Sorry for so late notification, but I've got sunk in new-urgent-open issues at work so much that I wasn't able to touch my coti earlier than late at night.
Obviously, as befits a total newbe, I was so excited that I've forgotten everything I've read in Academy and in all the posts from you. Just made a slurry (faaaar to thick) and started honing a razor without dulling the edge, pressing too much, pushing unevenly, sprinkling too rarely (managed to let the slurry dry like a swamp), tearing off the spine, etc., honing like crazy for... hmmm... 3 hours..? :scared:
I think I've managed to do all possible mistakes except breaking the blade (ehm, yeah, I can already hear the evil's laugh of yours). :blush:
On the end the razor was cutting the arm hair barely, but hey, it did it even before!
I'd risk the statement that the blade was in a far better condition before than after. :blink:
Fortunately I was sober enough take the razor I won't be crying for.

Yesterday I recalled your advise and, while at work, I equipped myself with a curl of long hair from a girl working with me (you can imagine her face when I asked a favour). :D
I wasn't able to ask that favour of my girlfriend (who btw also got a long blond hair), as we're 350 km away from each other right now, so I do not dare to imagine her face when she's back and spots other hair coiled with care in a tiny powder box. I have to remember to throw them out in time, otherwise I won't manage to excuse myself.

To be... ehem... completely honest with you I actually purchased... ehem... one more stone from Ardennes (200x50 combo), but haven't tried it yet (yeah, I can hear your booming laugh again).
And yes, I remember what I wrote on this forum about an ability to resist the addiction. :-/

Begging for understanding,
Turning pockets inside our and looking for forgotten savings to collect enough to purchase next items,
Sincerely yours,
maro
 

StraightRazorDave

Well-Known Member
Congrats on the new stone! Don't get too worried about a failed first attempt. As long you read up in the "Coticule Sharpening Academy" here and get some practice, you'll be improving in no time. It's a nice looking coti btw, and it sounds to be similar to the one I'm starting to get more acquinted with, no. 16 from the Coticule Vault. It's also a La Veinette, and by the sounds of it La Veinette cotis are fairly consistent so your stone is anything similar to your's, then you've got yourself a nice razor hone. :thumbup:

May I suggest just trying a simple unicot with this stone first? It's probably the easiest method and won't introduce as many factors as a dilucot would, for example. You just have to make sure the razor will shave arm hair first.

You don't want your slurry too thick as it will dull the edge more than help it really, especially if it gets "swamp" like as you said. :p It just takes practice. But if you stick with it you'll get to know the stone more and more!

And about getting another coticule from Ardennes....I don't think you'd be the first one here to succomb to coticule addiction! Certainly not me....I only have 5 coticules.....:rolleyes:
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
As said from me too buddy congrats. and just relax into it, take your time and enjoy the learning curve you are now unconsciously and uncontrollably heading along.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Hey Maro,

thanks for the nice write up! You've just put a big smile on my face. :) Yes, be careful with that strand of hair. "I need it for my honing", is not a very trustworthy excuse...:D
As for the second hone, you'll only need one, but it doesn't hurt to have 2. They keep value anyway. And I look forward reading about each one's unique feel and peculiarities. I bet I'm not the only one here that awaits with anticipation for your future honing adventures.

I think Dave's advice is sound. Aim for a Unicot first. It's the easiest method. Take it slow at first. Precision is way more important than speed. Adopt good technique right from the start. Flip the razor between thumb and index finger, and not with your wrist. (Thank me later ;) ) Be aware of your honing strokes and let the fluid guide you for good contact during the stroke.

Keep us posted!

Best regards,
Bart.
 

maro

Well-Known Member
I spent close to an hour writing a reply when something has happened with my IE and I lost everything. Arrrghhh!!!
So, starting again and browsing recesses of my memory...

StraightRazorDave said:
Don't get too worried about a failed first attempt. As long you read up in the "Coticule Sharpening Academy" here and get some practice, you'll be improving in no time.
I'm mature enough ('68) to not expect splendid results at the first time (except when I switched few years ago from skis to snowboard and now I'm still recovering from the fracture of the shoulder cartilage I've never suspected having).
So, I didn't cry that I failed, but thank you guys for cheering up. :)

StraightRazorDave said:
May I suggest just trying a simple unicot with this stone first? It's probably the easiest method and won't introduce as many factors as a dilucot would, for example. You just have to make sure the razor will shave arm hair first.
It was neither unicot nor dulicot whatsoever. "Madicot" seems to fit that spectacle best, yet the aim really was just to get the razor shaving arm hair well. I didn't dream of passing HHT-5. :D

Bart said:
As for the second hone, you'll only need one, but it doesn't hurt to have 2. They keep value anyway. And I look forward reading about each one's unique feel and peculiarities. I bet I'm not the only one here that awaits with anticipation for your future honing adventures.
I'm aware one stone is enough and that was one of the main reasons why I've got convinced to go for a coti. I'm travelling relatively often and carrying a bunch of stones in a hand luggage (I'd never put them to the registered luggage knowing how suitcases are handled) through the security checks in the airports is out of question (although, I have to remember to put the razor in the registered luggage, otherwise I'll lose it the same way as I lost my ~30-year-old, long and slim folding pocket knife I've grown with).
Anyway, it's too late to abandon the second stone as they both arrived together (yep, I purchased the second one togehter with #26) :blush:
Regarding peculiarities, it will take some time for me to learn to distinguish them. ;)

Yesterday I was more calm, dulled the razor on the edge of the glass, checked that it doesn't shave arm hair anymore, dulled again just to be sure :) , raised a close-to-milky-like slurry and started to hone looking out for a fore-wave being under-cut by the blade.

The biggest challenges so far are:
1. to keep the slurry wet - It's drying up so quickly that I fall behind with the recommended number of strokes. I had to wet it every ~10 strokes, but then it was getting more and more dilluted.
2. to keep the blade flat on the point during off-the-body motion - Recognized based on the fluid's behaviour. I know I need more practice but at some point I started to think that the stone is too narrow comparing for my close-to-zero experience.
3. to keep the hand still - I wanted to follow the advise and tried to "feel" the stone by keeping it in my hand. After an hour the hand was shaking as I was sitting in a snowdrift all that time. Obviously, all the "feeling" has gone with the wind. :D

The results were rather mediocre as the razor was shaving the arm hair barely. Popping hair off sounded a daydream, so I went to bed.

I'll try again tonight and tomorrow and the day after and let you on Monday.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
maro said:
I spent close to an hour writing a reply when something has happened with my IE and I lost everything. Arrrghhh!!!
So, starting again and browsing recesses of my memory...
I feel your frustration. Been there, done that, and all. downloaded the "safe text area" add-on for Firefox, and never looked back. :)
maro said:
The biggest challenges so far are:
1. to keep the slurry wet - It's drying up so quickly that I fall behind with the recommended number of strokes. I had to wet it every ~10 strokes, but then it was getting more and more dilluted.
Are you using half strokes? Somehow, as the slurry becomes contaminated with steel particles (the gray color), it becomes more viscous and stays on the hone better. I too add drops of water occasionally, but that doesn't need to thin the slurry, unless I add more. Certainly not every 10 strokes.
maro said:
2. to keep the blade flat on the point during off-the-body motion - Recognized based on the fluid's behaviour. I know I need more practice but at some point I started to think that the stone is too narrow comparing for my close-to-zero experience.
Don't underestimate your minds abilities. It's like learning how to ride a bike. At first it seems impossible, but as soon as you get the hang of it, you wonder what you ever found so difficult about it.
Just practice regularly. Better 15 minutes daily, than on nerve wrecking 2 hours session weekly. There's nothing wrong with honing a razor during the course of several days.
maro said:
3. to keep the hand still - I wanted to follow the advise and tried to "feel" the stone by keeping it in my hand. After an hour the hand was shaking as I was sitting in a snowdrift all that time. Obviously, all the "feeling" has gone with the wind. :D
See my point above. Don't worry about "feel" and other things right now. Just aim for a nice and steady stroke. If you do, the resulting edge will be decent enough. Just learn the basics. That'll give you 90% of what's capable, and that more than enough for shaving. Some people never shave with better edges. The remaining 10% will keep you challenged for years to come. I know it keeps me challenged.:)
maro said:
The results were rather mediocre as the razor was shaving the arm hair barely. Popping hair off sounded a daydream, so I went to bed.
Just continue working at the bevel stage till is shaves arm hair well, and does so on every part of the edge. Your n°26 is certainly capable of producing a bevel that shaves arm hair well, coming of slurry.
At that point, my advice is to opt for the Unicot method.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

Smythe

Well-Known Member
maro said:
I ...suitcases are handled) through the security checks in the airports is out of question (although, I have to remember to put the razor in the registered luggage, otherwise I'll lose it the same way as I lost my ~30-year-old, long and slim folding pocket knife I've grown with).....
Damn... That how I lost my favorite Leatherman... but I'll get over it... eventually.
 

maro

Well-Known Member
Bart said:
Are you using half strokes?
Yes, I did on the beginning. The slurry started to dry up during X strokes.
I don't know what has changed over a weekend but now it dries up slower. It's probably me... :rolleyes:
Bart said:
Just practice regularly. Better 15 minutes daily, than on nerve wrecking 2 hours session weekly. There's nothing wrong with honing a razor during the course of several days.
That's what I did during weekend. Well, maybe 1-2h instead 15 min a day, but I've got the point. :)
Bart said:
Just continue working at the bevel stage till is shaves arm hair well, and does so on every part of the edge. Your n°26 is certainly capable of producing a bevel that shaves arm hair well, coming of slurry.
At that point, my advice is to opt for the Unicot method.
That's what I was aiming for. One evening I tried to switch to this new, wider 200x50 stone but got back to #26 quickly. Strange but it looks like I've got used to it after literally 5 sessions. :scared: Now it's surface seems to give some velvet feeling while the blade glides over and a silent "whooosh" sound (I did not lapp it, I swear). I can't feel and hear either "typical sound of "sharpening steel"" or "a very faint sensation of abrasion" as described in your assessment in the Vault. Am I becoming deaf or "the typical sound of sharpening steel" means a sound a grinder utters for me?
I will use unicot. I wasn't able to use it earlier as I bought a 0.13mm insulating tape just on Saturday.
Anyway, tried unicot, got arm hair shaving, went to water only, barely reached HHT-2 but after 5 nights of honing I desperately wanted to shave with the razor, :blush: so went to linen and strop and shaved.
It was a disaster. I looked like an incompetently butchered pig and had to finish with a safety razor. :D
But... will keep trying. :thumbup:
 

justin

Well-Known Member
Be careful with the drying slurry. If you let it get dry then you aren't going to get anywhere.

It just takes experience. Don't give up no matter how shitty the shave is. Eventually it will click, and you'll be honing amazing edges.
 

maro

Well-Known Member
justin said:
Eventually it will click, and you'll be honing amazing edges.
That's what I'm hoping for. :)
In the meantime, question to Bart: would you be so kind to assess the vain the second stone (200x50)?
I asked Rob about it before Christmas but he didn't reply so far (honestly, I didn't expect him to remember it, all in all he's running a business so it's probably hard to recall the roots of each and every stone that has been sent).
Nevertheless, here the picture of the stone should appear:
Coti%20360%20view.jpg
And here the slurry stones received in a set should be shown:
slurry%20stones.jpg
 

maro

Well-Known Member
Strange. :confused:
I followed exactly the recipe from "Website announcements and suggestions > Pictures tutorial" but obviously I failed.
I'll try to edit the post to make those bloody pictures visible somehow.
As a workaround, here are the links:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Edit: I've made the pictures visible but they're very small, so I'll keep this post with the links.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
It's a "La Petite Blanche". Very little doubt about it.

maro said:
That's what I was aiming for. One evening I tried to switch to this new, wider 200x50 stone but got back to #26 quickly. Strange but it looks like I've got used to it after literally 5 sessions. :scared: Now it's surface seems to give some velvet feeling while the blade glides over and a silent "whooosh" sound (I did not lapp it, I swear). I can't feel and hear either "typical sound of "sharpening steel"" or "a very faint sensation of abrasion" as described in your assessment in the Vault. Am I becoming deaf or "the typical sound of sharpening steel" means a sound a grinder utters for me?
You 're lucky in the sense that I am a sound engineer. One of these days, I'm going to hook up an AKG C-414 and record the different sound of a few typical Coticules.
If I may ask, what razor are you honing (grind, width)?
Does your slurry turns gray quickly?

maro said:
Anyway, tried unicot, got arm hair shaving,
Before, or after you applied tape?
I'm only making sure that you were shaving arm hair before you applied the tape, because it does not work otherwise.

maro said:
went to water only, barely reached HHT-2
Definitely something wrong here.
We need to figure out what.
It can't be the hone. "La Veinettes" are among the easiest to get excellent edges.

Best regards,
Bart.
 

maro

Well-Known Member
Bart said:
It's a "La Petite Blanche". Very little doubt about it.
Thanks for assessment, Bart.
Bart said:
You 're lucky in the sense that I am a sound engineer. One of these days, I'm going to hook up an AKG C-414 and record the different sound of a few typical Coticules.
Sounds great! Can't wait the recording. :)
Bart said:
If I may ask, what razor are you honing (grind, width)?
Does your slurry turns gray quickly?
Sure you can. Why not? It's a contemporary, ordinary Solingen razor (stainless steel, hollow gring, the width I can't recall, will measure when back at home). For the first attempt I took the not-so-valuable razor, in case I have to throw it away afterwards. ;)
The slurry turns gray reasonably quickly with half strokes. I was so slow with X-strokes that it was starting to dry up. :D
Bart said:
maro said:
Anyway, tried unicot, got arm hair shaving,
Before, or after you applied tape?
I'm only making sure that you were shaving arm hair before you applied the tape, because it does not work otherwise.
I can't recall. Probably before, but I don't want to mislead you now.
Bart said:
Definitely something wrong here.
We need to figure out what.
Thank you very much for the support. I'll give it a try again this weekend (Mon-Fri may be difficult as I'm going for a trip again).
Bart said:
It can't be the hone. "La Veinettes" are among the easiest to get excellent edges.
Sure it's not! I woudn't dare to blame the stone.
It's me. :(
 

maro

Well-Known Member
maro said:
It's a contemporary, ordinary Solingen razor (stainless steel, hollow gring, the width I can't recall, will measure when back at home).
It's 5/8, with semi-round point.
 

maro

Well-Known Member
As promised, I've tried again yesterday and... another disaster! I probably ruined my razor! :scared:
This time I've prepared myself much better than the first time. I read unicot pdf instruction on the forum. I've printed pdf and read it again on the paper. I've gathered all the required items and read the instruction the third time.
And started to hone. The first two steps were easy, so after completing them I moved to the third step.
I did 30 half X-strokes on one side, flipped the razor and did another 30 on the other side.
Arm shaving test -> failed.
So I did another 30-30 strokes.
Arm shaving test -> failed.
Next 30-30 strokes.
Arm shaving test -> failed.
As the instruction says you have to repeat 30-30 half X-strokes 2-20 times depending on the razor condition (and mine had a factory bevel), so I continued untill I lost the count.
I paid attention to do an equal number of strokes on each side (30-30 most of the time).
The slurry was turning grey after ~10 strokes and after ~30 it was getting so dense that I had to dilute it. Therefore after every 2-3 rounds I had to rinse the razor and the coticule and raise a new slurry. After the rinse I was also doing the arm shaving test. It was failing every time but I didn't discourage myself and was raising a new slurry and starting to hone again.
After a few hours (someone on this forum compared honing to a Zen meditation) I woke up from this oblivion and started to think there must be something going wrong here. Thrue enough, the razor was new, with a factory bevel blunted by stroping and shaving and by my previous honing attempt, but come on, it can't take hours!!!
So I rinsed the slurry out, examined the blade carefully and... I was close to get a heart attack. :scared:
From a brand new razor with a perfectly straight blade I managed to turn it into something like this:
Dovo%20Inox%20blade%201.jpg
Dovo%20Inox%20blade%202.jpg
From the original 5/8" width (~16 mm) I turned it into ~15.5 mm on the point/heel and ~15 mm in the middle of the blade. Please note also the uneven wear on the spine that corresponds to the narrowing of the blade.
As you can see, cotucule did the perfect job. But what did I do wrong?
How could it be that I removed almost 1 mm of steel and never made the razor sharp enough to shave arm hair?
 

towliff

Well-Known Member
ouuuuch! Im sorry to see that. Im definately not an expert on honing with a coticule, but Im pretty certain you were simply honing on a slurry that was too thick. No other answer. Due to the nature of the coticule, the thicker the slurry, the more abrasive it is (as im sure you know), but the slurry also dulls the blade as your sharpening it - thicker slurry = more dulling. Looks like youve had a slurry thick enough to remove a LOT of steel, but the dulling action on the edge prevented it from gaining keenness. Next time you try, dilute the slurry with a few drops of water, give it 30 either side and try the arm again.If that doesnt work, dilute some more. BUT, your gunna have to remove that frown before focusing on the arm hair.:(

As for the frown, the others can help you out here. I think it could be your putting too much pressure in the middle of the blade. You may need to try a rolling x stroke. Anyways, im no expert - id wait for some advice from the likes of bart/ralphy/gary/paul/rayman etc as they have tonnes of experience. :thumbup:
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Bad news on the honing then, but nothing that cant be made right, I would say without a shadow of a doubt your slurry is too thick, if you removed that much steel and never got the edge shaving arm hair. and its a mistake I made myself when I started too so I know just how you feel.

I would start again and this time use slurry JUST THE SAME AS BEFORE but give each end the attention to remove that frown, we are not looking to get the edge shaving anything yet just trying to straighten it out so, place your finger at the point and do straight 1/2 strokes until the edge is level that end, then place your finger at the heel and do the same. now rinse everything off and make a fresh LIGHT slurry, start again with the 1/2 strokes but keep your finger in the middle of the blade, be careful to do X strokes to keep that nasty frown away, and if your slurry is not too thick you should be shaving arm hair in no time.

Keep smiling good luck
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Good Heavens Maro,

I sure looks like you got in a real honing trance there. :scared:

Earlier on this weekend, I made this thread that I hoped you would read before something like this happened:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


The best thing you can do now is to hit the free honing service button. Provide your address and I will send you a shaveready razor, for you to keep and comfort your sorrow, and to shave yourself while you send that nice Dovo to me.
I can't put the steel back on, but I can make the edge straight again and put a good edge on.

You must have been honing for many hours to turn it into something like that. Let's hope you have developed a steady honing stroke while you were at it. ;)

Best regards,
Bart.
 

maro

Well-Known Member
Thank you guys for the support and reassurance.
The only reason why I actually did not get a real heart attack was that it's the least valuable razor I have (not necessarily in terms of money). Yet, I have to admit, I got depressed.
Bart said:
Earlier on this weekend, I made this thread that I hoped you would read before something like this happened:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Unfortunately, it was a bit too late for me. I was already at home with no internet connection.
Bart said:
The best thing you can do now is to hit the free honing service button. Provide your address and I will send you a shaveready razor, for you to keep and comfort your sorrow, and to shave yourself while you send that nice Dovo to me.
I can't put the steel back on, but I can make the edge straight again and put a good edge on.
That's a very magnanimous offer, Bart. Thank you very much. I've just arrived to Finland today, so I have to see how the land lies regarding the shipment possibilities here (not to mention the time it takes, as I wouldn't like to miss your parcel).
Bart said:
You must have been honing for many hours to turn it into something like that. Let's hope you have developed a steady honing stroke while you were at it. ;)
I hope so. Otherwise the sacrifice that Dovo made for me would be wasted. ;)
I also hope that Smythe won't link my pictures in his "Razors you need to stay away from" thread. :lol:
 
Top