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Are there stones you can't get a smooth finish on?

pinklather

Well-Known Member
I started on a c12k, and got keenness after some practice. With experimentation, mostly with pastes (on the stone, not a strop), I could tone down the crispy-ness only a very small amount. I thought I'd experiment again, mixing crox paste in w/ the slurry, hoping it might give some smoothness. 'Didn't happen.

I've also finished on a translucent arkansas stone - pretty much the same results. 'Very keen. No smoothness.

I've wondered about other stones. I've tried one razor w/ a shapton 30k glass stone. Keen, no smooth.

Are there stones where this is to be expected without extraordinary measures like pastes? Charnleys are also noviculite - like the arkansas stone. Is smooth obtainable there? Is there a method to obtain smooth w/ a shapton?

I've gotten smooth from the asagi and now the LPB. 'Very happy with the results. 'Makes me wonder what stone won't yield to a smooth edge, or if it's all technique.
 

pinklather

Well-Known Member
So either everyone gets butter smooth edges on every stone they've tried...

Or possibly the questions is perceived as too provocative? Provocation is not the object. If there are techniques to get smooth from these rocks, I'd love to know about it.
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
I didnt find the question at all provocative, just not something I could answer, I have tried lots of different finishers, both used by myself and others, and so far for me, the Coticule gives me the smoothest shaves, I also like the Vintage Thuringian/Eschers.

Nothing else, so far has come close to being as smooth and forgiving

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 

pinklather

Well-Known Member
Gents, Thank You for your kind replies.

I've not yet had the pleasure of the escher/thurry - just keep hearing good things about them. I certainly agree that the smoothness is now necessary for me. That was clear from my first shave w/ a smooth edge. My curiosity is about those stones I've either used or had edges from where smooth was not part of the picture. It is certainly possible/probable that I've simply not yet mastered them - or gained enough competency to enjoy some level of smoothness they can bring. The reason for asking is that if some techniques are used/useful for those stones, I'd like to add the techniques to my toolbox.

Again, Thank You both.
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Our pleasure

I can say that I have tried extensively with a Charnley Forest on, water, oil, and lather, I also tried the same with a C12k and the results were the same, nice and sharp, but no way near smooth enough for me, the Thuringian/Eschers were in fact the best out of the bunch, but the results I get from them are IMHO certainly no better than I get from a well performed Coticule edge, and at a fraction of the cost as far as the stone goes.

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 

DJKELLY

Well-Known Member
Are you speaking of different coticules layers that finish better than others? If so, Chris might want to check in. I am personally in a place right now where all the coticules I have, mostly vintages, seem to work equally well with a little massaging at the end. Many guys have a favorite stone in their kit that gets them there quickest or easiest and then they can gauge others stones by that one's performance. I seem to be finding more difference in the razors now than in the stones. If you really want to compare, you have to have a blade you are positive will perform.

Performance to me right now is just how well the edge will pick up strays after two passes. If I have to use more than a couple strokes to get perfectly smooth at a spot, it will cause irritation because I will invariably "go after" the little bastards with too much pressure. If a razor does that, it does not work, in my opinion.

YT, Denny

Edit: Looking at other thread, I might have posted this in "Favorite Layers" but it works here too, I guess.
 

life2short1971

Well-Known Member
Right there with you Denny. I have no mercy going after the stray little bastards either. no matter what state I may leave my neck in. I have found if it doesn't get them the first time It won't get them the 5th either. It doesn't matter which stone the razor was honed on either. I either got a good edge or I didn't.
 

danjared

Well-Known Member
I've only had problems with unsmooth finishes from razors I get microchipping on (whether because of the razor or I'm being too heavy-handed on a really hard stone like novaculite) or when using certain pastes/sprays that I shall not name but begin with d and end in iamond. But I think I could probably get something acceptable with sprays/pastes if I really tried, especially since I know that there are others who disagree with me. There is also an element of personal preference. (And yes Robin, I actually like what Thüringer hones can do despite not really liking pastes.) By the way, I subscribe to the theory that some edges can be too sharp. I believe that is a separate matter, though.

I think the original question really needs some qualifiers. There are many variables that can affect the outcome.

Also, pinklather: If you would like to try a Thüringer edge, I can offer a sample if you send me a razor. Please message me through the Machine Room if you are interested. I would cover return shipping.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
what have t tryed. 12k naniwa leave a nice finish. escher and my little thury 5x1 is as good as eschers i have had.ch12k good stone and very cheap. Coticules are and have always been exallant when used to do the whole process with dilucot or unicot. If you want to experiment i would say grab a little vintage thury 5x1. You can get them for around £50 to £100. My most smoothest and wow shaves have come from my coticules and i reprase and say only if i got the max out of the stone. that goes for any hone . you can only finish a razor when its ready for finishing if its not ready you won't get the end result from any finisher.

gary
 

pinklather

Well-Known Member
Gents, this is helpful.

My experience is similar to Ralphy's - c12k, noviculite - I get sharp, but almost never smooth. Asagi - I can get either. Too crispy? 4-6 laps on dry stone & it's back to good manners. My first attempt at BBW honing came out quite crispy. I was surprise, and it made me curious what techniques if any are used to bring back the smooth - likely at the expense of SOME keenness.

Jared, I will likely take you up on your kind offer. 'Will PM. 'Would be glad to do likewise if you have a razor you'd like done on a Nakayama Asagi.

Thank You, Gents.
 

danjared

Well-Known Member
pinklather said:
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I'll keep an eye out!

I have tried an asagi (used to own one) as well as a few other stones. I have Nakayama Maruka. (Suita? I'm unsure. Some would call it a "kiita/asagi blend". It appears to have very small su.) I do not use it too much, though. If you'd like, hone your razor on your coticule, and I can give you feedback.
 

Disburden

Well-Known Member
Depends on your face and other faces. Some people love Eschers because of how sharp the edge is and how "crisp" it is to the shave. Other people don't like it and think the Coticule is better...

For me I couldn't stand the Shapton glass stones when I tried them. This may be due to a lack of experience because I didn't try them for more than a month, but that was my overall conclusion of them before I sold them off.

I think if you dedicate a year to using one type of hones you can figure out how to make them feel smooth to your face through adjustments.
 

Smythe

Well-Known Member
pinklather said:
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I believe sharpening stones vary quite a bit in shave quality. For example, the abrasive grits in the Coticules (for want of a better word) are “round”, and thus creates shallow cuts in the bevel to form the edge. The abrasive in other hones may have different shapes. Most man-made hones are made up of Silicon Carbide grits (SIC), but SIC grits are needle pointed, and they make deep triangular cuts in the bevel to form the edge (deep, that’s why it cuts fast), as you can imagine, that may create an edge with sharp grooves… like shaving your face with a sharpened “fork” VS shaving with a sharpened “spoon”.
 
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