BBW question

[pedalpowersailing]

Are there any instructions as to when/how to use my BBW.
I am using a yellow coticule most all the time now and getting good results most of the time.

I have a bbw stone that I like and would like to incorporate into my sharpening.

Tim

 

[Bart]

The problem with the BBW is that there is a lack of knowledge about them.
I have brought 4 different specimen home with me from my last visit to the quarry and hope to do some serious comparative tests. Perhaps I can come up with a few new insights for using them.

In essence, a BBW is a kind of Coticule, with less garnets (= the abrasive particles of the Belgian hones) that are bigger in size. It is a slower hone than a Coticule. The sharpness level that can be achieved with slurry is good. Keener than what you can get on most Coticules. With a true Coticule, you can work your way up with diluting the slurry, and surpass the keenness any BBW will offer.
You could try the dilution trick on the BBW as well, but that really brings you in currently uncharted territory. Working on plain water has never worked well for me on the specimen I tried. I have a theory for that behavior. You can read about that in the "Mine" section of this website:

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Now, for some pratical information:

you could try setting the bevel on your Coticule with a decent slurry. Refer to the Unicot method in the Sharpening Academy, steps 1 to 4.
After that, go to your BBW with a thin slurry, and hone till the keenness levels off (I estimate 50-100) laps. Finish with 50 laps on your Coticule with water.
It depends a bit on how well your Coticule/BBB tandem works together, how keen the edge will get. Several people have reported excellent results with that approach, but others have found the edges very smooth, but slightly lacking in the keenness department.

One thing that works amazingly well, is a slurry of Chromium Oxide on a BBW. In about 100 laps, you can create edges that laugh with those of a Shapton16K, a hone known for high keenness.
I have made a Youtube video a while ago, where I hone a razor from dull to very sharp, on just the BBW and a slurry of CrO.

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That razor has quite a few shaves on the counter since then, and it still shaves as good as it ever gets. You could leave the slurry to dry on the BBW and reuse it next time. Of course you couldn't use the BBW for bevel correction, in that case. Something I do not recommend anyway: a Coticule with slurry is much better for bevel correction. I only wanted to demonstrate that, in a pinch, it can be done.

Best regards,
Bart.

 

[tat2Ralfy]

I have used my bbw as part of a progressive honing using the unicote method (I know 2 stones is not unicot but there you go..lol) with great results, I set the bevel on the coti with slurry, Tape the spine, then use a light slurry on coti for 30 or so laps, onto the bbw with slurry for 30 or so laps, finish off on the coti with water for 50-100 laps

I found the bbw does indeed get a level of keenness that is exceptional, but I needed the coti with water to get a super smooth edge, I believe using the bbw works well but, I wouldnt use one out of a progression as above, unless I finished on a pasted strop to get the smoothness.

 

[garyhaywood]

Hi tim i'm finding my bbw redundant nower days after using dilucot method and unicot method let us no how that razor shaves of the unicot method i think you will like that method. see you soon budy.

 

[pedalpowersailing]

Well I have to agree my BBW is fast heading towards the redundancy pile. Having used the Dilucot method successfully, I have just had a lesson from Gary as to how to perform the unicot method.
We took a 50 p car boot razor and turned it into a really smooth, sharp razor within 20 mins.
I am going to continue with both methods for now but am slightly in favour of unicot as it seems quicker with less diluting

As an experiment I am going to use BBW after unicot then used coti and water just to compare the results

 

[garyhaywood]

Tim how was the very toe?

 

[Jantjeuh]

I also have a question on the BBW.

At my first purchase I got myself a BBW and a coticule. But I rarely if ever still use the BBW because I do not have a slurry stone for it (any suggestions? Ardenne told me to use my coticule slurry stone for it as it would basicaly be the same, but that does not seem to be a great idea in my opinion, mixing both like that).

I'm interested in getting this baby back in my routine as it is such a pretty stone anyhow

How do you get a slurry of Chrox on the stone? I have some of that green paste stuff that should go on my loomstrop, but never use it, is that what we're talking about? How on earth do you make a slurry out of that?

Thanks!

 

[tat2Ralfy]

Hi, and a warm welcome to you,I believe your yellow slurry stone should do the job just fine, all though Sir Bart is your Man, I dont see why you couldnt use a high grit DMT to raise slurry either, as long as whatever you use will not leave bits of itself in the slurry you should be just peachy
The Crox used to make slurry on the stone is a powder, wet the stone first and then apply the Crox powder with a small brush, the water will miv with it as you hone, the biggest downside, as Sir Bart always points out is, unless you can leave that stone to dry out and then re-wet it whenever you need it, you will end up washing all the Crox away when you have finshed
Hope this Helps
Best wishes
Ralfy

 

[Bart]

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Do you mean these are separate hones? Because your Coticule, as seen in the photo's that your rabbit took of it, is definitely a natural combo stone. If so, simply rub the bottom of your Coticule over your BBW, or the other way round, 'cause they both are Belgian Blue Whetstones.

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It depends on what you are trying to do on it. Mixing slurry has advantages (more speed) and disadvantage (the slurry limit of a Coticule).

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Ralfy, my humble servant, is correct again. That bowl in the video contains CrO in powder state. If you are talking about green Dovo paste in a tube, that is NOT Chromium Oxide, but a much coarser abbrassive (5-7 micron in diameter), CrO is O.5 micron. A CrO in paste form will probably not work to put on the BBW anyway, because it is most likely oil based.

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[Jantjeuh]

What the heck? I have a natural combo stone? Are you sure about that? I mean, yes I ordered a coticule and a BBW, they are two separate hones. I always I had the impression it was quite similar to a BBW at the bottom part, but seriously, a natural combo stone? Let me attach some more pictures just to make sure here, that would be an awesome surprise I would have imagined that I had to pay 'extra' for a natural combo?

It seems there is a slight layer of glue in between them, or do you mean a natural combo as in a combination of two natural stones?

Yeah, it does seem like both are BBW, I took a picture, guess which ones has a coticule on the other side I always assumed it was a 'lijsteen' or something and never imagined he'd stuck a BBW on the other side.

 

[tat2Ralfy]

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Bwhahahahaha

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Always a Pleasure Sir Bart, never a Chore

I reckon your right on the combo stone, mine looks very like that at the join (Transition really nature didnt stick them together, they "grew" like that)
If it were mine I would compare the surface patterning with that of my "known" BBW, the slate they use at Ardennes doesn't have the same darker dappled look to it, next I would try raising a slurry, but NOT with a slurry stone, I would use some wet/dry paper, that way you will know the slurry has come from your hone and not your slurry stone, if it makes a nice inky milky slurry your in! if it just sets your teeth on edge your not.

Thats what I think anyway

 

[Bart]

It's a combo stone, no doubt about it. There's no glue line. A glue line would have been straight and clearly outlined. The transition on your stone is nothing like that. A slate back will produce a light gray slurry. Yours will produce a slightly brown, purplish slurry.

Bart.

 

[Smythe]

As far as I can tell I would say it is indeed a natural Coticule combo stone.
Have a look at this one (my only Coticule). Does the transition from blue to yellow look similar to yours?

 

[Jantjeuh]

I'd say about exactlt the same yes, like unevenly and wavy like that.

So this was a coticule which formed naturaly with BBW on one side and coticule on the other side? That's so cool :thumbup: