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Bevel Tip and Magnification

I'm not sure if I can do that. I think so, but that would entail moving the lighting and the 'scope to the computer, or vice versa:) SWMBO would not be impressed.

I've found a feature that lets me zoom in using the view screen, and it locks the mirror in the up position as well, so I'm pretty hopeful.

I had a shave with the MK31 shown in some of those previous photos, and it wasn't very smooth at all.
I was going to do a test with it on the soaped stone, but I'm not happy with the way it shaved, even though it gave such good HHT readings. Does anyone have any thoughts on the quality of the bevel shown there? Does it appear to need more work to remove the "texture" or defects at the edge?
 
From my use of a usb cam at 400x that edge is not sharp yet. It should still look squared at the edge.
frame2.png
 
Well Chris tbh it may be the iPhone screen, but looking hard at your pics on the previous page, I think I see a few chips and maybe a crack half way down? The chips will give you a great HHT but your face won't thank you for them.

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
you can't see sharpness with a scope. See one of my earlier posts this thread, for a more thorough explanation.

For those who don't beleve me, drag the tip half of a perfect edge over a beer bottle, and compare the still HHT positive part with the part not shaving anything. I can't see it.

Chris, I'd call that MK32 and that La Verte both perfect candidates for the wax-strategy.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
One think I have noticed with certain razors is I actually have to apply more pressure to the stone to get a keenness. I don't understand that.
 
This is fun.
Using the zzom function on the screen worked a charm.
Here's a photo, in fairly nice quality, of the damage I did to the edge of my J.Haywood that Gary was kind enough to hone up for me. It might be coming back to him!
IMG_1608.jpg
:cry:

This, again, is the MK31, from this state, stropped, linen and leather, and one shave, I'll take to the waxed stone, as Bart suggests. (this image is actually one of four I may try to "stack")
This shave was a little too crispy for my tastes. (Paul's "crispy" BTW...;) )
IMG_1610.jpg
 
How something can be too fresh and invigorating is beyond my limited capacity to understand people's preferences :huh:
 
life2short1971 said:
What is your email Bart?
Click to expand...

Scott, if you want to send e-mail to myself, or any other member, you can use the "machine room" menu, item "members list". Otherwise, my direct e-mail address is bart at_ Coticule.be

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
If I'm not boring everyone to death, I'll keep on posting some photo's. I'll spare us all the tedium of having to scroll thrugh the thread after overloading it with giant photos, so I invite you to view them here:http://s640.photobucket.com/albums/uu121/wdwrx/JHaywood Chip removal/
Sorry for the mixed up order, but the captions and photo labeling show the chronological order. I'll try to get on that.

I've noticed a couple interesting things. The chip was quite easy to remove, all of about 10 minutes and 200 nice light ex-strokes. I started out with the DMT1200 and 20 laps on one side and took a photo in an attempt to document the fin that I've seen previously under similar circumstances, but I wasn't able to capture it as my improved jig currently only allows good exposures from one side. There was some evidence of it in the swarf after flipping the blade after returning it to the hone. The second two photos are of the first 20 laps, and then an additional 100 or so. The fourth shows the completed removal after about 200 laps.
The next three photos show an interesting occurence; exposure #5 shows the bevel after dilution (long tall steps through dillution as the stone seems quite fast) The bevel tip shows a nice even line at the tip, with very few deviations or flaws, the sixth exposure shows the same edge after about 80 x-strokes on water. It seems that the edge has deteriorated, and developed a series of fluctuations in the evenness of the bevel line. The final exposure shows the result after another light slurry and dilution using the lightest pressure I could.

Any thoughts on what appears to happen here? Things that have occured to me are that I'm doing too many strokes on water, and wearing the bevel past it's point of cohesivness (is that even possible?) or, more likely, is it issues I have with pressure, or could there be a different factor I haven't thought of?

Urmas, thanks for that link, I've made a few tentative steps towards creating an enhanced depth of field image. I need to learn a bit more finesse with the whole camera and 'scope set up but I'm working on it.

Paul, as far as too crispy, if I might ask your indulgence in a slight digression:
I love nothing more than a beautiful, clear, early winter morning. Say, 5:30 am, before the sun comes up, the sky shades from infinite black to a deep rich magenta and royal purple glow, warming through to glorious red-golds as your eye follows the stars to the point they fade out on the eastern horizon. When the snow crunches and squeals under your boots, and the air is so clear and cold it feels as as if it could shatter at any moment. Every breath becomes an exhilerating experience; an intrusion of cold and sensation deep into the center of your being. Your sinuses shrink and recoil from the cold, and the fog of your breath hangs for moments in the still, cold air, condensing again on your eyelashes and eyebrows in small, diamondine ice crystals. This, my friend, is my best attempt to describe a crisp morning, as I know 'em. And the colder it gets, the crispier it gets. At what point is it too cold? One might as well ask the same; at what point is it too crisp?

Kind regards,
-Chris
 
Hey Chris--I just got the digital microscope and it is cool. Goes up to 400, I think but I haven't got it down enough to know. Looks like it will make short work of pictures, though. I just did a Genco and even at the highest magnification and two different hones, your vintage and a Japanese natural, the line of the edge stayed straight and the only difference was hazy look of the bevel surface.

I don't think it is possible to overdo proper strokes on water and get past a good edge. Didn't Bart do a ridiculous amount of strokes and it just didn't get sharper, but not duller either. I do think 80 strokes on a dmt1200 is excessive. Unless severely damaged as yours was, it would not take much more than twenty to set a bevel.

I have a feeling you are trying to do the final strokes too lightly. I would think it is more important to use enough pressure to make sure that contact is perfect and the blade doesn't wobble at all during the stroke. But that is only me and you know I like to use pressure. When you get the narrow Les Latneuses I would try to hone on it with normal pressure. If you get good results it should prove to you you can use more pressure with a full sized hone without a problem. I am sure that smooth is much more important than light.

As far as your crispy weather is concerned, I have had more than enough in the last four days to last this Florida boy the rest of my life.
 
wdwrx said:
If I'm not boring everyone to death, I'll keep on posting some photo's. I'll spare us all the tedium of having to scroll thrugh the thread after overloading it with giant photos, so I invite you to view them here:http://s640.photobucket.com/albums/uu121/wdwrx/JHaywood Chip removal/.
-Chris
Click to expand...

Hi Chris,

Your photos are very interesting... no boring thing at all. :)
First two pictures - J. Haywood and bout 10. I can see that the edge is nice after dilutions and quite bad after honing on water on same coticule. I have seen such results more than I like.
I recommend you to repeat the dilutions and after that do light lapping (5-6 strokes) your bout 10 on DMT 1200 and then go ahead with polishing on water. If you follow my advice, the please let me know how the results were.

Regards,
Urmas
 
I've uploaded some more photos of the same razor. http://s640.photobucket.com/albums/uu121/wdwrx/JHaywood Chip removal/
Again, showing some signs of some type of edge deterioration. Note the appearance of a flea-bite that seemed to appear from nowhere, and for no discernible reason. It's occurrences like that the I find very frustrating as I can't determine a cause.
I used a couple different strategies; Denny's pressure idea, applying lots of torque to the blade, and generally more force exerted than normal for me,(photo #1/4) and then a round after having rubbed the stone, using Urmas' suggestion, with the DMT, and very light pressure (photo #2/4), then onto the Le Verte with milky slurry and light (typical) pressure, and then a water finish.
All areas of the blade are of the same section, give or take. there is also visible a millimeter mark of a printed ruler visible in the background for scale.

I made an attempt to enhance a couple of the photos, to no apparent effect.

So I'm not sure where I stand on this idea of pressure. there are times when I'd swear the edge went from a nice contour, to one that shows more "texture". I'm beginning to think that i might be overshooting a certain sweet spot and, for lack of a better word, over-honing to the point where the edge goes away. I'm not seeing a huge correlation between edges that seem to show this development of texture and pressure in the honing stroke.
I think it's time to do some more comparisons between known good edges and these one's I'm seeing as problem blades. And some actual shave testing.:)
 
Chris, with my new digital scope you can see the picture on the screen before you capture it. At times the little beads of light show up on the edge, but if I shift the angle between scope and edge a little they go away. Have you shave tested the edge. I have a feeling the problem is might be in the picture and not on the edge. Maybe light will refract around the half micron edge like water does around an island. Where's Matt or some other photon junkie? Once again, I wouldn't be surprised if you were there already.

I just backtracked in the thread and see you might have shaved with the edge with the beads and it was too crispy, er scrapey, for you. That would indicate sharpness, right? I might get one of those beady edged pics and try several more with just a change of angle somehow.
Your pal, Denny
 
The edges I see in my microscope even the ones like yue describe with the reflections will go away with a good stropping. I have some blades that don't like pressure and some that do and one that likes a light slurry before finishing under water.
 
I agree, Denny and Scott, that the beads of light are refraction off the very tip. I've seen them present in every blade I've looked at, and I'm pretty sure I've looked at them all (of mine I mean:p ). Like you say, it's a funtion of the angle of incidence. I'm not very easily able to adjust the source though, or I lose all illumination. But what I'm reffering to isn't the reflected light, rather the growth/ appearance of some kind of defect in the edge itself, some more apparent than others.

OK... I have to quite typing now... I'll go strop the one, run some good HHT's on it, maybe snap some quick photos of a couple blades I know are good (Saint Denny, your DD is coming under scrutiny next!) Also on the list is to figure out how to zoom and enhace the photo's a bit, and figure out how to draw lines and arrows and circles on 'em!
 
I know what your saying. If they are still there after stropping then the edge is not at its best but I commonly see them before stropping and not after.
 
well, I haven't yet got anything on my list done today. i've been messing with this all afternoon. I had my 13yr old daughter try to give me a lesson or two on photo editing... not having much luck.
These photo's are so huge in size that it's possible to blow them up a significant amount, but I can't seem to capture any of that. Also messing with the contrast and colour balance and all that jazz shows some pretty neat-o effects.

As for the refraction thing, I'm pretty sure that that isn't what I'm observing. There are somewhat random, varying sized flea-bites in every single on of the razors I've looked at. No-one has been spared: if you've honed a razor and I have it, it's now been photographed :p
I've also run a few more laps, the MK31 to a soaped stone (Le Dressant eu Blue), and one blade i honed after heating it in boiling water on a hot stone (don't ask;) ) Plus the album contains now before and afters of stropped blades.
Denny, lets see some of them there photos! You've got photobucket figured out... Lets see some photos of that naughty cat... the Puma i mean, not that mangy fur ball:D

If anyone's following along, further uploaded photo's: http://s640.photobucket.com/albums/uu121/wdwrx/JHaywood Chip removal/

edit: Most every one of these blades are passing good hanging hair test, without an exception good 4's. Also of note, in refference to the soaped stone, I'd swear that the linen stropping brought the HHT down from what it came off the stone with.
 
Those are nice pictures, Chris.

A heated stone and a heated blade... I wonder about the curbe in your brain, to come up with that.:D

Those small chips missing from the edges don't look normal to me. Unless your magnification is much higher then what I use, that shouldn't be happening. Based on the series of pictures, you seem to pitck them up early on, and not manage to get rid of them later in the process. Do you use other hones than your Coticules for correcting the bevels on your razors?

Kind regards,
Bart
 
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