coticlule progression method with barber hone

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
I tryed all the methods in the past god no's what year or so many times . I like to use dilucot method as its more challanging then i could just touch up on my coticule with water in the future.

I have never tryed the method where you slot manmade hone in the middle.

So i won a pike hone in mint condition for £3.79 deliverd Bargain.I dulled razor in usaul manner honed on coticule with reg slurry untill i was back to shaving arm hair and tpt was feeling spot on did'nt take long. i did a thurther 50 on lighter slurry then i hit the barbers hone for five laps and used the tpt to keep an eye on things i ended up doing 20 to 25 tpt was very sticky and i was passing hht i forgot to go to coticule on water for final polish next time i will. After stropping hht was fine. The shave was great no pullingat all and gave a close shave on this particular razor i just felt there was room for slight tuning up may be could of been just a tadge smoother but.

But i figured that shaving of coti with slurry will shave but will pull slight at the stubble or have slight resistance and seeing as barbers hones are used for this reason in touching up a razor that just starts to pull this would be an ideal cheap hone to up the keeness before coticule with water and it did work the barber hones are a realy handy size too. i posted this for ralfy who has got a barber hone you should try and let me no what you think the thing i noticed about this barber hone it does cut very quik god nos whats in them because the surface is so smooth you would'nt think it was posible.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Great stuff, Gary.:thumbup: :thumbup:

I always wondered about barber hones and how they could be included in a progressive honing method.

You really need to figure out if there is any edge improvement finishing a Coticule with water. But if I understand you correctly, it took about 25 laps to boost the keenness left by a Coticule with slurry to a level where it maxed out on the barber hone. Sounds good, and probably easier than a dilution phase on the Coticule itself.

I hope Ralfy will join the experiments. (and maybe I should get one too:) ) Possibly open the Lab-section...:w00t:

Thanks mate,

Bart.
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Sounds like a plan guys :thumbup:
I got a boss barber Hone as a gift, what would you reccomend? I think see how it is as a finisher after coti slurry, then try again but go a little coti water afterwards?
[c] Photo0309.jpg [/c]
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
I'd still like to use the whole coticule thats just me but lets just say after dilucot method the edge could be a tiny bit keener and you have missed that keeness leveli reckon you coould either go to unicot method this would work with out a shadow of dout. But if you prefer single bevel you could it paste i'm sure that would work if you rather avoid paste for edge lasting and convexing reasons or paste is to harsh for sensative skin ie i reckon your barbers hone would do the trick with just 5 laps.

What i'm going to do is coti slurry barbers hone test shave add coti water and then compare the smoothness and shave again . then i will do dilucot method shave test and then i will add 5 laps on barbers hone test and shave and compare the differance if i loose smoothness i will add coti water and compare.
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
ok I will go unicot cause i can get good results, I will use barbers instead of coti water, Strop leather only and test shave, then go coti water 50 laps, strop leather and test shave.
Gleaming :thumbup:
and then see where that takes us, if results are good I fancy unicot, coti slurry as normal then go barbers with the tape say 20 laps? and see how that is
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
If you are using unicot method i don't think there will be any differance as keeness with unicot method is easily reached. Wheather you use barbers hone or not and i reckon 10 would be enought after tape is added but thats up to you. The main reason for using manmade hone in the middle is to save having to do the dilute method which takes lots of laps thats why i tryed it so what you would do normaly with dilute method is reach arm shaving and then start to dilute and finish on water with coticule hoping you have got full keeness. Instead of doing all those laps you could hone on slurry untill shaving arm hair a further 50 on thinner slurry to up keeness on coti then hit your barbers hone for 25 laps or untill you are passing hht then finish on coti with water for coticule edge this way you don't have to do an extra 200 to 300 laps on coti dilute method give it ago see what happens .Its just another short cut just like using the double bevel method but you still have a single bevel
 

justin

Well-Known Member
That's nice you picked one up for so cheap. I tried to get one, but all the ones that I bid on (Swatys, Corborundums, KeenKutter) ended up going for over $100. I should check some antique shops around here.

This idea of speeding up Dilucot makes me think, could you do half strokes most of the way through? What exactly do the half strokes do that aren't good? that you need to do 30 regular x-strokes afterwards. So could you do half strokes all the way up until you reach a misty slurry, then start doing regular x-strokes till the end?
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
I don't think that would work as with half strokes you are using a little pressure by keeping your index finger on the blade its mainly to set bevel then you need light pressure from there on with regular x strokes pressure also makes adifferance i find the lighter your strokes get the better if you need to remove more steal then more pressure is needed but for refining you need to go lighter manmade hones cut much faster with water coticule with slurry cuts as quik but also restricts keeness. so by slipping synthetic hone in there your refining much quiker and by finishing on coticule with water you end up with coticule honed edge and that magical smoothness.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
btw this pike i won from some one in the uk i find the barber hones from usa always fetch stupid money $100 is to much look on srp if i get chance of one in uk cheap i will let you no
 

rayman

Well-Known Member
I have heard the statement before that you can't overhone an edge with a coticule. I can't disagree with this, mainly because I am not that familure with this stone, yet. I did have a coticule at one time and passed it on to a better home. I am, however, in the process of getting a new one, and hope to be up to speed with everyone here in a short period of time.
The definition of overhoning in razor lingo, as compared to knife lingo, is a bit different. I have done both and can feel the one (on a knife) and have seen the other under my microscope. That very fine wire, shining brightly along the edge of the blade up through the eyepiece, and only bearing its presence on one side of the blade. That fine wire can then change sides by just making one, very light, pass on that side down your finishing stone. It does exist, and I have seen it more than once.

If it is true, and I will soon find out, that overhoning can't be done with a coticule, I will let you know. I certainly don't doubt that this is the case, I can only tell you what my experience has been to this date.

When I get my coticule, I will be able to converse with everyone a bit more clearly and sucinctly with regards to these stones and their methods.

Ray
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
garyhaywood said:
If you are using unicot method i don't think there will be any differance as keeness with unicot method is easily reached. Wheather you use barbers hone or not and i reckon 10 would be enought after tape is added but thats up to you. The main reason for using manmade hone in the middle is to save having to do the dilute method which takes lots of laps thats why i tryed it so what you would do normaly with dilute method is reach arm shaving and then start to dilute and finish on water with coticule hoping you have got full keeness. Instead of doing all those laps you could hone on slurry untill shaving arm hair a further 50 on thinner slurry to up keeness on coti then hit your barbers hone for 25 laps or untill you are passing hht then finish on coti with water for coticule edge this way you don't have to do an extra 200 to 300 laps on coti dilute method give it ago see what happens .Its just another short cut just like using the double bevel method but you still have a single bevel
ohyeah !hahaha
I will try that instead then
Thanks gary mate
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
I've tryed agin on differant razorand the barbers hone does'nt seem to be making a good enough differance this time may be not so good you will have to try ralfy let us no how it goes may be i should of refined more on coti. But having said that i might as well carry on with coti the point was to refine on barbers hone ah well i tryed
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
ok so I gave this a whirl last night (Sun), same as Gary on the coti until shaving arm hair, tpt and hht (violin) to benchmark,then the Barbers Hone with a light lather
1st 10 laps, mmmm tpt feel less sticky, like it was dulling off, oh well I thought thats often the case until things start to come good
20 more laps, tpt better than it was, hht = violin but more jumpy, still no catch and pop.
20 more laps, tpt no better, hht no better so it maxed out somewhere over 10 but below 30 I guess, lets say 20=25?
the egde was maybe a little sharper than off the coticule according to the tpt, and the HHT was slightly better as well.

Would I be happy stropping and shaving with it? err no! I dare say coti water would improve the edge, but I didnt go that far, thing is i looked before the barbers hone at 60X mag, then 10 strokes, and again at 20, and the edge went from the usual silky matt coti finish, to one with a lot of scores and scratches, so much so that I tried another 50 laps to see where it would go, safe to say that by then Desperate Dan would have gotton BAD shave rash and if asked to identify a photo of the edge at 60X mag, most people would say "Hacksaw blade" it had more teeth than a B.Gees dressing room.

So it is my conclusion that the Barbers hone is not as fine as a coti/slurry, and less laps with a good stropping after will give the best edge, does this hone have a place in a progressive honing pattern? if it does then I think its before the coti with slurry, used to make the edge good and sharp, then the coti could be smooth and finally polish.

I have never used or seen the edge left by an8k synthetic hone, But based on the above I would say mine is at least that coarse.

What do you think Gary? how coarse is yours, and have you tried putting it before the Coti mate? I will try next time, just to see.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
Second time round i noticed the tpt of barbers hone diteriated and felt duller after coticule i will wait untill a razor needs touch up and try the usaul 5 laps on barbers hone and see what it does. Under my microscope there ws more scratch pattern rather than sand blasted efect what the coti/slurry leaves but only fine scratch pattern my norton 8k leaves a very nice polish i'm not sure what to say about the barber hone i will try the same but use my norton 8k and see how it goes i used the nortons for a good three years and i no the 8k polishes realy well and has cutting power to refine i will post soon.You noticed the same as me that was barbers hone seemed to dull after coti so i agree there totaly because what i did was went back to coti water that improved tpt then barbers hone set the tpt back i no some barbers hones are coarser so i read.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
Ralfy i set bevel with slurry then i did 50 laps on regular slurry and then did 10 laps on norton 8k checked hht it was'nt passing i got to about 120 laps and was only just passing i did 30 coti water and stropped the tpt felt great but hht not good i'm sure it would shave but how good i don't no any way i'm sticking with dilute method folowed by paste if needed and i might add unicot bevel if needed thats what i will be sticking to as it works realy well for me.
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Fair play Gary mate, unicot for me and dilucot if i have more time to spend, with the unicot as a fail safe if needs be, and Crox strop as a last resort.

I dont get it with the barbers hone?

I want to get it, I mean there real traditional, great size and a wonderful thing to own, but are they useful when you can use coti with water or even light slurry then water to touch up?
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
I don't. Like bart says stick to the same coti untill you get to no it and you carn't go wrong i no for a fact i could easily touch up on paste and coti with water on my hone as it seems to work well with just water or like you say misty slurry then water i prefer to touch up on my hone as i just like using the hone and then if i feel the need i would do athew laps on paste.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
I just started again on same razor because it was buging me i'm down to finishing on water coming of dilucot method and i'm passing hht of thicker grey hair from shop not my head! so its working fine. Just good to try other option to compare. Cheers gary
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Shit the bed!
you did that in 20 mins!
well done Gary
I thought the barbers Hone would have been great too
Esp for you, being a Barber! :D
 
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