Differant coticules

[garyhaywood]

I no there are qiute a thew of us that have more than one coticule. I now have just two number 3 from the vault and number 21. you can read upon them if you wish.

My question is, are you finding that you get a better edge of a certain coticule. For example smoother or slightly keener edge. I'm finding my 21 is easier to achieve the level of sharpness and feels smoother slightly. My nu 3 works just as well not quite as smooth. I think the smoother the edge you can get the sharpethe blade seems . I'm doing more tests to compare the differance's. My nu 21 acheives hht of the hone very well hitting more often than not a 4.

My nu 3 acheives hht on the same razor 2/3 which is no problem . Infact i have had razors not achieve that and the shave is still very good. I have added a thew laps on paste and i can slice baby hairs. The shaves have not been as nice, why i think it's too over done and becomes sharper but harsher.

I have said before i'm getting great results setting bevels with nu 3 fast cutter/ then dilucot with nu 21 moderate cutter as 21 seems to refine that little easier. I have done this several times.

I just honed two razors up da's on 21 the other on nu 3 plus 10 laps on my ti paste which is very good stuff.

I tested this morning and to be fair the razors were both very much the same except the coticule honed razor, and i'm not being byised was slightly smoother.

Bart this means my next shave on your true blues will be saturday night, i just had to try the double arrow out i'm sending to sham. he's testing my coti edge and he will be putting an escher edge on my razor. i will post the differance to the lads.

 

[StraightRazorDave]

Hi Gary,

Over the last couple of days, I've tried giving a couple of my razors a bunch of laps on my no.15 La Grosse Blanche. One of them wasn't passing the HHT quite to my liking, but they were both shave-ready nontheless.

The first one I gave it a few sets of 50 laps with just water, checking the edge under 30x after each set. I can't really remember how this razor was finished before to be honest...it was one of my coticules. I stopped when the scratch pattern didn't change anymore. No.15 seems to give a slightly shinier bevel then other coticules I've tried. I'm not attributing this to keeness, but I was only using it as a benchmark as to how the coticule was affecting the bevel, as I already knew the razor was shave-ready. I did the regular stropping and shave. It toned down the edge a bit, but without really loosing the sharpness. It left my face feeling unshaved, with the alum block really not doing that much. That's perfect for someone like me who has slightly sensitive skin. :thumbup:

The second razor wasn't quite passing the HHT as best as I would like, so I tried the 50 laps sets with my no.15 coticule like before. (In case you were wondering why I chose 50, I found that to be about the maximum number of laps on fresh water until I start to notice a bit of auto slurrying on the hone. I want to avoid the autoslurrying when the razor is already sharp.) After the scratch pattern was very uniform and the bevel (and spine-wear too) had that slightly higher polished look that I can only seem to get with this hone and my other La Grosse Blanche coticule, I did my stropping routine. The HHT improved!! So although no.15 is slow on just water, if you're patient it can reclaim a bit of keenness with just water. The shave was spectacular, very very smooth. It left my skin feeling unshaved again.

So I do notice a difference between coticules, although it's not a huge difference. To be honest all that I've noticed so far is that razors finished on either of my La Grosse Blanche hones leave a slightly skin friendlier edge, the others feel pretty much the same....To be fair, all the (sharp enough) coticule egdes I've shaved off of so far as really skin friendly, it just seems that ones finished on a La Grosse Blanche are just a bit friendly to my face.

 

[garyhaywood]

The big differance is with slurry on my two , Basicly one cuts fast ones moderate. I pass hht of the hone on nu 3 when finished on water only , yet nu21 can pass of hone with misty slurry. 21 leaves smoother feel when shaving than nu 3. Bart did point out my 21 was extra smooth he was right about that. Yes they both shave smooth just one extra smooth so i finish on that one.

 

[StraightRazorDave]

As far as slurry goes, I avoid using my no.15 coticle with a slurry because it does seem to dull the edge pretty quickly. I remember Bart in his write up about it saying that there was a huge gap between keennees when using it with slurry and with water. I find that to be much less of an issue on my no.16, La Veinette, as it still cuts fairly quickly with slurry, but doesn't seem to dull it nearly as much, so it's a nice compromise.

I have a couple of really fast cutting La Petite Blanches that are lightning fast with a slurry, but if you want to progress to gain any sort of sharpness, you really have to back off with the thickness as anything thicker than a milky slurry seems to hurt the edge. But GREAT for serious bevel work. Last night I was messing around with a test razor looking to see how quickly I could remove heavy DMT scratches from the bevel. There were still marks from the DMT 325 grit, but this coticule took care of it. All I did was make a fairly heavy slurry, and did half strokes with moderate pressure. The slurry became pretty much black in no time!!! So a real cutter, which sounds more similar to your no.3 Gary.

My one La Petite Blanche is especially fast with slurry, but has this incredible smooth and silky feeling even with a very fast cutting slurry, it's a bit suprising. Another that I got from Rich (zib) performs quite similarly, but doesn't seem to dull the edge quite so easily with slurry, so more useful for dilucot. And my third La Petite Blanche is nothing like the other 2, it has a much harder feel to it and doesn't cut as quickly on slurry. But I found this one to work GREAT for catching up on a bit of keenness when used with just water as it cuts fairly quickly with water without any auto-slurrying. But it has a much grittier feel to it, but leaves a nice edge....weird I know.

But, as I said, no. 16 works the best for me for the actual sharpening process, as I seem to have a better feel for that one for dilucot. The faster La Petite Blanches work well for serious metal removal for bevel work, and the La Grosse Blanches work well for putting the finishing touches on the razor after it was refined on my no.16 La Veinette. (You have to be careful with The La Grosse Blanches, as they seem to be softer and release slurry on their own if you do too many laps with water without rinsing).

So I seem to have my coticules grouped into 3 groups: bevel work (La Petite Blanche), refinement (La Veinette), and finishing (La Grosse Blanche). I could easily get away with just using my no.16 for everything, but I like to play around with other coticules, especially when others fit a particular role better.

In conclusion, coticules rock!!! I love the diversity among the stones, and I know my stones are only a small sampling of the coticule spectrum out there. If all coticules were the same (which some postings and threads on other forums would have you believe), then this wouldn't be nearly as fun.

 

[garyhaywood]

Sounds like you have it sused nicley dave. same with nu 3 any thicker than milky slurry and i carn't shave arm hair yet my 21 with a good slurry i can. I like to use them both as it would seem a waste . Its just nice to use them in the right order. thanks for your experiance's.

 

[Bart]

An absolutely super post, Dave. It completely confirms with all my own observations.

As far as slurry goes, I avoid using my no.15 coticle with a slurry because it does seem to dull the edge pretty quickly. I remember Bart in his write up about it saying that there was a huge gap between keennees when using it with slurry and with water. I find that to be much less of an issue on my no.16, La Veinette, as it still cuts fairly quickly with slurry, but doesn't seem to dull it nearly as much, so it's a nice compromise.

Yes, La Veinettes are among the easiest to get a great edge. So are many La Grises and La Vertes. Simply because they have a smallish "gap". If you can combine that with decent power on water, getting a keen edge is only a matter of not messing up the honing stroke. Unfortunately, as you found our through experience with your collection, the Coticules that truly excel at one field, usually are less lenient in another. Your lightning La Petite Blanches display a lot of slurry dulling. In a way, a La Grosse Blanche resembles La Petite Blanche, but with a bit more variety within that layer. Your n°15 may very well beat your La Petite Blanches with slurry, but is just a tad finer on water. It's just more extreme at both ends of the spectrum, which explains the big keenness "gap" and also why it is truly a stone for the advanced honer.

I have a couple of really fast cutting La Petite Blanches that are lightning fast with a slurry, but if you want to progress to gain any sort of sharpness, you really have to back off with the thickness as anything thicker than a milky slurry seems to hurt the edge. But GREAT for serious bevel work. Last night I was messing around with a test razor looking to see how quickly I could remove heavy DMT scratches from the bevel. There were still marks from the DMT 325 grit, but this coticule took care of it. All I did was make a fairly heavy slurry, and did half strokes with moderate pressure. The slurry became pretty much black in no time!!! So a real cutter, which sounds more similar to your no.3 Gary.

N°3 is probably form the "La Dressante" layer, which delivers hones in a very wide range of properties.

(You have to be careful with The La Grosse Blanches, as they seem to be softer and release slurry on their own if you do too many laps with water without rinsing).

That may not be entirely correct. So far, all layers I assessed delivered soft as well as hard stones. That seems related to the density of the layer at a particular depth or finding spot. I also learned that speed is completely unrelated to soft- or hardness. You didn't claim that, but this seems a good time to make that statement. I've also found that autslurrying stones often give better finishes when you rinse them regularly or use them under the slowest running tap. Earlier tonight, I got amazing results on one of Robin's razors (a Dorko) with a layer I hadn't used before: "La Veine aux clous". It was a heavy autoslurrying stone, and the tap made all the difference.

So I seem to have my coticules grouped into 3 groups: bevel work (La Petite Blanche), refinement (La Veinette), and finishing (La Grosse Blanche). I could easily get away with just using my no.16 for everything, but I like to play around with other coticules, especially when others fit a particular role better.

That completely concurs with my own thinking about Coticules, although I hardly ever communicate that. The reason for being so reserved, is that I fear inexperienced users might start to overestimate the differences, certainly in the end-results that are possible on all Coticules It's as you said: speed varies greatly, edges finishes are really only minute, yet not entirely insignificant for a seasoned shaver that knows how to read the finer points in a Coticule edge.

In conclusion, coticules rock!!! I love the diversity among the stones, and I know my stones are only a small sampling of the coticule spectrum out there. If all coticules were the same (which some postings and threads on other forums would have you believe), then this wouldn't be nearly as fun.

Full agreement. Read my latest signature line! (with thanks to Matis)

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[tat2Ralfy]

Wonderful wonderful thread and stunning posts chaps :thumbup: precious information for sure, and a very very valid point that should in my humble opinion be taken on board by EVERYONE that uses a coticule:

Dont get caught up in the idea that different coticules will give you a different result at the end of the honing process, they just have there own strengths in some areas, its not until you truly know your stone that you will see this, take Gary's awesome Dilocut description, that sort of knowledge and understanding only comes from really knowing the hone, and will of course vary slightly for each and everyone of us, and each different stone.

Respectfully
Ralfson (Dr)