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difference in canvas material

J

jfdupuis

Well-Known Member
Hey guys,

I did 2 successful dilucot today. I think I've finally figured why I wasn't getting good HHT. I had been using my Ambrose cotton which is very nice, but not good with improving the HHT I guess. So today I tried my old 2 inch Vintage blade web fabric and bang! The HHT test was probably up to 4 or 5.

Does anyone know where I can get a good fabric component? I keep hearing that one of our esteem Norwegian member makes his own...any suggestions?

THanks!~

JF
 
Torolf does indeed have highly esteemed linen and leather components, but he is a little backed up, I think. At least if my order is any indication....hint, hint. Our friend Chris has done some experiments with coti powder, among many other materials, on strops and I would expect you to hear from him soon. YT, Denny
 
Hi JF,
I have read that the the Ambrose linen is a bit stiff. You might want to try softening it up or perhaps using Dovo white paste on it. If you are interested in another linen send me an email.

(Hi Denny, your strops are on the bench... )

regards,
Torolf
 
jfdupuis said:
Also what is your experience with putting coticule slurry on a canvas strop? any advantages?
Click to expand...

It turns the strop into a pasted strop.
Works very well for catching up with any neglected keenness on the hone, or for a quick and easy touch-up. But the downside is that it introduces a convexity at the bevel, which renders it out of reach for touch ups on a hone. After several touch-ups the convex becomes pronounced enough for the increased angle at the very edge to compromise the shaving comfort. On a pasted hanging strop, that happens faster than on a pasted paddle or loom strop.

The only substance I would put on a hanging fabric strop (if anything) is a dressing with only the softest buffing action, such as the Dovo white paste that Torolf suggested. A very similar effect can be obtained from a mixture of soap and chalkboard chalk, which is actually gypsum (sometimes mixed with kaolinite). The difference between these sort of dressings and abrasive pastes such a Coticule slurry and Chromium Oxide, is that the former are very soft (Gypsum is about 2.5 on the Mohs scale) and the latter are hard enough to scratch hardened steel at a fast rate (Mosh values above 7).
But a good linen also works in clean, untreated condition. If the linen doesn't seem to performing well, don't be afraid to try more pressure.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
Well tried to put some coticule slurry on my canvas strop and wow! After 30 some passes my razor was cutting hair with zero effort/sound. Has anyone else experienced the same results? When you talk about the convexing of the edge, would going to the coticule with water alone followed by the pasted strop prevent it?

JF
 
jfdupuis said:
Well tried to put some coticule slurry on my canvas strop and wow! After 30 some passes my razor was cutting hair with zero effort/sound. Has anyone else experienced the same results? When you talk about the convexing of the edge, would going to the coticule with water alone followed by the pasted strop prevent it?

JF
Click to expand...

I've had good results with BBW slurry on a jute strop. I also have tried Coticule slurry, although I haven't used it much, it definitely works. I do feel thought that BBW slurry works better for pasted use.

There is nothing that can prevent the convexing effect. In fact, it is the convexity that makes the whole pasted stropping deal so efficient. In a way, it works similar as a secondary bevel. Both aim to deliver extra keenness at the very tip of the bevel.

There is no real harm. You'll notice that you can do many pasted touch-up, but eventually it will appear to have lost its magic. That's the point where the convexity is fully developed, and the effectn, once again, is similar to what happens if a secondary bevel eventually overgrows the primary bevel. At that point, its advantage has disappeard. You could start all over by cutting a new secondary bevel at a steeper angle (using more tape on the spine). The same can be done with the pasted strop. More slack will unleash new power. But we can't augment the bevel indefinitely, because too obtuse bevels don't shave all that comfortably. When your pasted touch-ups arrive at that stage, the time has come to reinstate flat bevels. I know several straight razor users who keep their razors going that way, and it works very well. The only downside is that it takes long to recover the heavily convexed bevel after a year of pasted touch-ups.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
THanks Bart! So would I need to set the bevel with more tape after a few touch ups on the pasted strop or could I simply go back to the original bevel setting stage with the same amount of tape and work my way up?

JF
 
I've found exactly the same results you did, JF. On a sub-par blade the coti pasted strop does indeed help to improve keenness. But I found that on a blade that has given all it has to the stone, the pasted strop doesn't offer anything more to it, except, as Bart said, it begins to induce convexity to the bevel. Once the edges coming off the stone are top-notch, you'll probably find that the pasted strops become redundant. There may be some use in bringing a failing edge back, as I found that there can be an improvement in keenness and the edge still has all the forgiveness of a typical coti edge, unlike a Crox pasted strop, the edges of which I find prone to inducing irritation. It is fun to play around though, and it's a valuable learning experience, IMHO.

Cheers,
-Chris
 
Thanks for the info! I will try some further experiments with it in the future. I just honed up my Fily #13 DT using the dilucot method last night. The razor passes the HHT with ease all along the edge. Had a very nice shave this morning. Not 100% smooth, but I blame that on my 1.5 day growth. I always find that period to be an awkward period to shave. It seems that my hair is just long enough to cause some roughness.
 
wdwrx said:
I've found exactly the same results you did, JF. On a sub-par blade the coti pasted strop does indeed help to improve keenness. But I found that on a blade that has given all it has to the stone, the pasted strop doesn't offer anything more to it, except, as Bart said, it begins to induce convexity to the bevel. Once the edges coming off the stone are top-notch, you'll probably find that the pasted strops become redundant. There may be some use in bringing a failing edge back, as I found that there can be an improvement in keenness and the edge still has all the forgiveness of a typical coti edge, unlike a Crox pasted strop, the edges of which I find prone to inducing irritation. It is fun to play around though, and it's a valuable learning experience, IMHO.

Cheers,
-Chris
Click to expand...
Atta Boy!
 
I can certainly tell that the pasted strop is working. My white Ambrose strop has some nice grey/black spots on it. I think it's worth a try if you have an extra strop laying around. Now if only my H. Diamond #1000 could show up today!!
 
jfdupuis said:
THanks Bart! So would I need to set the bevel with more tape after a few touch ups on the pasted strop or could I simply go back to the original bevel setting stage with the same amount of tape and work my way up?

JF
Click to expand...

You can touch up on the pasted strop for as long as that brings the edge back. Eventually, the edge will pull, no matter how much pasted stropping you do. At that point, you'll need to reset the bevel to its original flat state. Once there, it's ready for another cycle of pasted touch-ups.

Best regards,
Bart.
 
Thanks Bart! I just got my H. Diamond razor #1000 today. What a beauty! I don't think I'll buy any other shaving gear for a while!
 
jfdupuis said:
ohh how many passes would you recommend on the pasted strop?
Click to expand...
Keep it conservative. I would do 6 laps or so on the pasted strop every 5 shaves. Keep the strop very taut. If a shave is not going as well as expected, just do 6 more the next shave. In my opinion, a touch up is better perform light and early than late and heavy. So if you feel like doing 2 laps before each shave, go right ahead. That should keep a razor going for a very long time.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
This reminds me of a thing , I´ve read on SRP. It was about Jnats. Somebody wrote that he was told to put some of the slurry on his palm and strop the razor on it, as the very last step. I don´t know whether anybody tried this.

Regards,
Tok
 
Tok said:
This reminds me of a thing , I´ve read on SRP. It was about Jnats. Somebody wrote that he was told to put some of the slurry on his palm and strop the razor on it, as the very last step. I don´t know whether anybody tried this.

Regards,
Tok
Click to expand...
Which reminds me of something, too, Tok. Pressure. Stropping on your hand with powder does indeed, work, though it feels like you would round over the edge. So does using more pressure on the Kanayama stiff linen, however counter intuitive it may be. In fact, I am now thinking that you might not be able to use too much pressure on a blade as long as you don't flex/warp it in the process. I'm not talking about convexing the bevel with pasted strops, but rather flat stones. I can take a knife blade to a coticule with MAXIMUM pressure, (please don't break anything) for the final (or all) strokes and the edge feels horrible right off the stone, but with just five laps on my webbed tool belt strop, it is amazingly sharp. It will even pass hht3 or better. I have a feeling razor fins are both delicate and remarkably strong. Yours Truly, Denny
 
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