Fast and slow

[jkh]

This is going to sound like a really stupid question, perhaps it is, but how does one determine if a Coticule is fast or slow? Does "fast" simply equate to removing more metal (i.e., more abrasion) with fewer strokes and "slow" is just the inverse? Or maybe the better question would be - what tests, markers, criteria, etc do you used to claim that, for example, a particular Coticule is slow with slurry and fast on water?

Educate me, please :

 

[squeezyjohn]

As far as I can tell it is just a relative term used to equate to the speed at which a stone removes metal (on slurry or on water).

A faster coticule on slurry will remove more metal for a given number of strokes and therefore the slurry will darken quicker - even blacken in some very fast cases whereas with a slower stone it might take many strokes to get the slurry grey. On water I imagine it to be the same thing although coticules on water remove far less metal from the blade and it's more of a polish.

I personally find the slower stones to be easier to hone on and that they give me a more smooth shave.

Cheers

Squeezy

 

[Emmanuel]

I agree with Squeezy Jeremy. Another way to have a comprehensive overview about the cutting speed is to read how Bart characterizes all these properties in the coticule vault.
Best regards
Emmanuel

 

[Disburden]

When you want to see which stones are faster than others you really need to just play with the stones you have. If you want to see a stone that's fast on water it'll make swarf in the water and it'll show on the blade in a few half stokes with pressure. I own a La Verte and it's slow on water and slurry, the water has no metal in it at all but it leaves a keen edge to shave with. Fast stones on slurry will make slurry black in a few sets of half strokes or even just 10 half strokes, it depends on the stone, you will also see slurry dulling on the edge when your done with the slurry if you don't dilute.

 

[Loric]

+1 to the fact that its all relative. Another good measure of speed on water is weather you can get a good polished edge with or with out running water. You have to be pretty fast on water to need running water, but its something else to keep in mind. Also setting a bevel on a slow stone takes F-O-R-E-V-E-R Or at least it seems too.

 

[Rhys]

..Also setting a bevel on a slow stone takes F-O-R-E-V-E-R Or at least it seems too.

Try going from start to finish on a Charnley then you'll know what slow means

 

[jkh]

Thanks, so my definitions seem to jive with the input from this thread.

Can a stone be fast without darkening slurry or water in short order?

 

[Bart]

Can a stone be fast without darkening slurry or water in short order?

I would say no. Slurry darkening is my main (but not the only) marker for speed estimations.

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[tat2Ralfy]

I agree, as the slurry or stone cuts steel it will show as a darkening of the slurry or water, its that simple

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)

 

[jkh]

I agree, as the slurry or stone cuts steel it will show as a darkening of the slurry or water, its that simple

Yeah, I sort of thought it was that simple, but I didn't want to over simplify the black art of honing

 

[Emmanuel]

I agree Jeremy with the other mates as slurry or stone cuts as the hone surface darkening, but all of us we can give by the words just general directions.What you will see with your eyes and apply by your hands that's the truer.Because the factors of cutting are many.It is not only the speed of the stone but depends also of the hone size and especially of the length .Depends of the steel quality too,if is harder or less,if is inox or carbon and finally of the razor wear .Imagine a razor with large edge and large spine side due to wear, as more steel touches and is cut on the hone as the slurry or water is darkening faster regardless the cutting speed.
Best regards
Emmanuel

 

[Bart]

Emmanuel makes many valid points.
People generally focus a lot on the absolute speed of the hone, but forget about relative speed, which is influenced by the length of the one, the size of the bevel (very significant influence), the hardness of the steel, the kind of pressure you can use (limited by how easily the blade flexes).

When it comes to spending time, I 'd rather hone a young full hollow on a slow Coticule than an old wedge on a very fast one. My rule of thumb is simple: if 15 minutes on slurry doesn't get the bevel in good order (shaving arm hair after pre-dulling), I'll go get my Cretan Stone or formerly I used a DMT-600. After either of those, any Coticule, regardless its intrinsic speed, will easily handle the rest of the honing job.

Bart.

 

[jkh]

Emmanuel, excellent points. :thumbup: It makes a lot of sense that one would want, no need, to reduce the number of variables (e.g., using the same razor, using the same slurry stone, using the same slurry densities) when comparing the differences between two Coticules.