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feel

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garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
Bart when you say you can feel when the blade is ready and we have develope this feel what tips could you give us i am kind of still figuring this out i notice differance in sound and resistants through my honing hand but still i could'nt say wheather my razor is ready through any of that what do you feel that makes you no your razor is keen as can be .I do the whole process diluting and towards the end i can pritty much tell the differnce once i flick my thumb across the edge and find the last strokes on water maked enough differance to be able to pass hht on a thicker hair but only just in some cases i do find some razors get there much easier than others so it can boil down to my razors taking an edge quiker than others.

I no its hard to explain and would be easier if you were at my side. any tips will help
 
What helps is if you listen but also if you look to how stuff moves up the blade as you hone. On my coticule, as long as the heavy slurry does not pass perfectly over the entire blade, it's not going to be perfect. If even 1mm is not covered, I can not move on because that part will not shave at 100%.

Of course, I'm not sure if I hone all my razors correctly, I'm sure some of them could or at least should be able to shave better, but I'm not so fanatic in getting that ultimate shave, I just like to get them to shave well :)

As for the sound, mine is when it goes from sounding like scraping metal (exaggeration of course) to a more 'sandy' sound. There is no more sound of metal honing and more a sound, which I can only describe as a sound that tells me the entire blade is correctly touching the hone, hmm that will not help you much. You know if you mix concrete and take a shovle to dig in there, and put it in the place where you want the concrete to harden? That sound of sticking your shovle in the concrete to scoop it up, that's the sound, only not as harsh.

I'm guessing it's not the same for all coticules :) And not everyone experiences the sound the same way (all ears are different)

That is the sound on heavy slurry, afterwards I just keep honing with slight pressure, I don't find that sound is telling me anything at that point anymore. Only if you mess up, then it will sound different :cry:
 
I don't know if this is an indicator, but I noticed that there is this slight suction feeling when you get to the water stage. When you're placing the razor onto the hone the edge sort of snaps onto the stone.
 
I 've been meaning to write an article about this for a long time. But it's very complicated and personal stuff and extremely difficult to explain.
I gave it my best shot and added a new article to the Sharpening Academy. You can access it with the menu, or here: http://www.coticule.be/advanced-feedback-markers.html
With all members help, we should be able to turn this document into a useful collection of honing markers, based on observations that can be made while working on your preferred Coticule.

I look forward to all constructive criticism.

Best regards,
Bart.
 
I just read the article very well written. I use the dilute method all the time and i have just done that honed and honed loads of razors on the same hone infact its the only one i have now i sold my others and i'm sticking to this one as its great cutter and finishes all good.

I have learn't several things when setting bevel to shave arm hair if my slurry is to slightly to heavy my razor won't even shave arm hair no matter how long i hone for. As soon as i use the right consistancy bingo shaves arm hair straight away so i think many people could go wrong there and it is a good point i also dilute with only one to two drops of water every 30 laps unless my slurry becomes alittle dry then i will top up with another drop as i can imagine dry slurry could nock sharpness level back. towards the very end i do more laps and as light as possible at this point i probe with hht and by now i'm just poping thicker hair. I then rinse don't wipe clean and do 50 laps then i rub clean and do 50 more laps at this point i no i will easily pop that same hair if so after linen and leather i poping fine hair this is how it works every time for me. With plain water my coticule defanatley does somthing as i can feel only just slight abrasion. the one i just sold when i came of slurry and went to plain water that hone just felt like i was honing on glass no feed back at all.So i persume it was merly polishing.
 
Thanks Gary,
I am sure you have mastered it fully. What you describe completely matches my own experiences.
As far as some razors develop quickly and others take longer, I attribute that almost completely to bevel width.
I have honed very hard Thiers Issards and supposedly hone resistant stainless steel blades with the Dilucot method, and they always take great edges without extra efforts. The only time I need to spend (lots of) extra time on the hone, is while sharpening wide bevels, usually on wedge-style razors. Luckily there's always the Unicot method to save a less than perfect Dilucot.:)

Bart.
 
Bart when you say wider bevels i have a couple of older razors that i have honed and honed on many times and they have slightly wider bevels unlike my dovos and newer razors that hardly have a bevel now they seem to be alot easier to reach keeness. But the wider bevels i have found to take alot more work and they don't seem as keen as easy this is when i have considerd using tape or i have used the isards paste.
 
garyhaywood said:
I have learn't several things when setting bevel to shave arm hair if my slurry is to slightly to heavy my razor won't even shave arm hair no matter how long i hone for. As soon as i use the right consistancy bingo shaves arm hair straight away so i think many people could go wrong there and it is a good point i also dilute with only one to two drops of water every 30 laps unless my slurry becomes alittle dry then i will top up with another drop as i can imagine dry slurry could nock sharpness level back.
Click to expand...

Does your slurry dry out quickly? It's very dry here, and my stone seems to dry out very quickly. I'll get up, go to the sink, and rinse my razor and when I get the stones already looking dry! This has gotten me quite a bit, because I won't be paying attention to the thickness/dryness of the slurry, and next time I got to test on my arm hair it's duller than a butter knife. I finally figured out it's when the slurry starts to get thick looking, kind of like oil. I dilute it a couple times, and lighten up on the pressure, which seems to work well.

This is slightly off topic, but after going through the half-stroke business and you go to do the 30 or so x strokes, is it alright to do it with a misty slurry? Sometimes after I have the razor shaving arm hair well, I'll clean off the stone and make the misty slurry (unicot) and do the 30 laps then as opposed to on the heavier slurry.
 
Very well written article Bart. With regard to your use of dishwashing soap, I think the soap reduces the surface tension, allowing the mixture of binder and garnets to float away from where you need them - between the blade and the coticule's surface. It does the same thing on most other stones, but is almost necessary on DMT's. Just a thought.

Ray
 
Great article Sir Bart! I have said all along your mastery of the English language is superb, even your grammer is better than most Brits! and this thread is awesome too, I can see it becoming a very educational source for many. :thumbup:

O.K I have trouble with drying slurry too, and always work with a small water bowl on the table, I believe if you are not quite fast at honing and, have a stone with a large surface or live in a warm or dry place, thats to be expected. I find if I am working to remove a lot of metal e.g. after breadknifing, then letting the slurry thicken up so its almost like toothpaste is ok, but if I am looking to shave arm hair I have to add a drop of water now and again, thick/heavy slurry causes a duller edge for sure. the garnets will hit the actual 0.5 micron cutting edge and dull it off, perhaps thats why a BBW leaves a keener edge on similar slurry? the garnets in the blue stone are a little smaller are they not?

Also when working with just water my beloved coti starts to make a very fine slurry off the action of the blade alone, and I like that! it gives a little more feedback however, I will add a drop or 2 of water if I start to get too much "action" as this again knocks back the edge a little. and I never get a sticky feeling, only a little bite or a smooth glide depending on the stage I am at. I do really notice the difference if I add a tape layer, not just from the tape drag, but from the smaller surface of metal working on the stone. The feeling is hard to describe but its there without a doubt.

What catches me out time and time again is once the bevel is set, the amount of pressure has to be kept very light, all the time I am thinking "this aint doing shit" but it is! it came to me tonight when I was working on my bent bladed G Forzly&Co, I realised that I just polishing the bevel so I compared the action of the blade on the stone to that of using polish on a cloth, where by you use little pressure but do a lot of strokes, and it was like a switch going on! it was a little more involved than that and I cant put it into words but I do not doubt it was a little mental breakthrough (No Sir Bart NOT Breakdown!..lol)
 
I noticed the same thing Ralfy. On water, if I take it slow I can definitely feel the stone working on the edge, but doing this I don't get the razor keen enough. The weight of the blade us just too much. But if I throw caution to the wind, and start going at it as fast as possible, it feels almost like nothing is happening, kind of like the edge is hydroplaning over the stone, but this gives me a keener edge.

Justin
 
justin said:
I noticed the same thing Ralfy. On water, if I take it slow I can definitely feel the stone working on the edge, but doing this I don't get the razor keen enough. The weight of the blade us just too much. But if I throw caution to the wind, and start going at it as fast as possible, it feels almost like nothing is happening, kind of like the edge is hydroplaning over the stone, but this gives me a keener edge.

Justin
Click to expand...

I know what you mean. I kind of get in a groove when honing on my coticule. The one I have now is rather small, but puts a good edge on the razor (it's the one in my avatar w/ the massive slurry stone :) ). After a few strokes, on plain water, I find myself speeding up slowly until I'm honing at a really good speed. Just tonight I was touching up a wedgier razor (maybe 1/2 hollow) and was counting strokes. It was no more than a few minutes and I did 200 strokes on the coticule!!! Probably more than I needed, but this stone doesn't remove metal that quickly, but it did give it a nice polish to the edge. :w00t:
 
One of the resons i got rid of my 8x3 was because i was only using half the hone it seemed to dry out on one side quikly. as for drying out on my bout i don't have a problem i don't go all the way to the end of the hone which keeps the slurry on the hone. Oviously with time and laps you will loose lubricant which i will top up. My strokes are fairly quik to begin with towards the end i will slow down i timed my self the other night after dulling my blade dilucot method took me 35 min utes. normaly can take 60 minutes even double that at times just depends. Once it s done its just a case of 10 mins touch up in future.I find its worth taking your time and getting it right and not rushing and also take a little breather and then go back and finish even 35 minutes is a long time when your concentrating so hard i find its mentaly tyring if you over do it. I also found when doing tpt if you lick your thumb and then continue honing your slurry will clog its as if the saliva clots the slurry and kina seperates it. So i just dip my thumb in water now.
 
One of the resons i got rid of my 8x3 was because i was only using half the hone it seemed to dry out on one side quikly. as for drying out on my bout i don't have a problem i don't go all the way to the end of the hone which keeps the slurry on the hone. Oviously with time and laps you will loose lubricant which i will top up. My strokes are fairly quik to begin with towards the end i will slow down i timed my self the other night after dulling my blade dilucot method took me 35 min utes. normaly can take 60 minutes even double that at times just depends. Once it s done its just a case of 10 mins touch up in future.I find its worth taking your time and getting it right and not rushing and also take a little breather and then go back and finish even 35 minutes is a long time when your concentrating so hard i find its mentaly tyring if you over do it. I also found when doing tpt if you lick your thumb and then continue honing your slurry will clog its as if the saliva clots the slurry and kina seperates it. So i just dip my thumb in water now.
 
garyhaywood said:
even 35 minutes is a long time when your concentrating so hard i find its mentaly tyring if you over do it.
Click to expand...

For sure Gary, and I find myself getting more and more tense, physically I mean, I can end up with a headache and a big knot between my shoulders
That cant be right can it :blink:
 
Morning ralfy, yes it can, dilucot is bloody hard work. One thing it gives you plenty of practice. I would'nt fancy honing 10 razors a day i'd be aking all over.
 
Morning Gary, I couldn't do 10 razors a day. all of mine are Vintage (old haha) so they have a smile,twist,warp,spine wear etc I do have two that are bang on, and they are like a breath of fresh air to hone, no rolling X stroke, no need to tape etc, now they are a pleasure to hone
 
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