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First Dilucot Success

K

kg4ghn

Well-Known Member
After about 5 or 6 attempts I had some success with Dilucot tonight. I just finished a great shave with my first self-honed coticule edge!

After doing extensive reading(much more reading than posting), I spent a lot more time at the really thin slurry stage than the thicker slurry stage. I used Gary's tips and went through a whole dilucot series then rubbed the hone with the slurry stone just a couple of times and did some more sets of halfstrokes and finally ended on 50 X-strokes on water. After stropping I got clean HHT 3s all the way along the edge. This means my strokes have gotten better as I usually get better results at the heel than the rest of the blade. One thing I did do different is I slowed my half-strokes down to make sure they were right.

It wasn't the best shave I've ever gotten, the coticule edge I had honed for me was better. But I am excited to get a good shave with a self-honed razor.

Now comes the slow process of improving the basics to get to where I know my edge can be. I'm enjoying it so far.
 
good stuff. nothing like honing your own edge. i did more honing than shaving, i actauly enjoy honing better than shaving. apart from the test shave that also a nice part when the edge comes up good. probably just do another 100 laps on water and test , or 50 at a time the shave may improve . after a thew sessions on water if there is no differance . then i'd be inclined to do 50 or so laps on misty slurry with normal x's and then water , the edge should dial in eventualy.

cheers gary
 
Great work Mike, as Gary says its all good :thumbup:

Also if the shave was ok you do indeed know you are almost there, I too would give it 100 on just water, followed by 60/60 on cloth/leather, that should dial the edge right in, if not then a very misty slurry, just as Gary says, if that fails you may want to consider checking it out at 30 or 60X mag, sometimes there are small (very) chips that go totally un-noticed, and they can throw the performance off.

Keep up the good work

Best wishes
Ralfson (Dr)
 
I get that chippy thing going on with some of my ti's.
No matter what I do I'm unable to get rid of them, these edges tend to be catch pop on hht number 2 or 3 and shave is reasonable. Any advice?

Joe
 
Deckard said:
I get that chippy thing going on with some of my ti's.
No matter what I do I'm unable to get rid of them, these edges tend to be catch pop on hht number 2 or 3 and shave is reasonable. Any advice?

Joe
Click to expand...

hi joe,

how did the edge i did for you hold up to chipping?

i own quite a thew ti's all of them are new ones. i have just sent my last one back because the bevel was absalutley awful, it looked like it had been honed a thousand times. the bevel was lik yours with a belly in the middle and realy thick in places and so uneven . it cost me £250 it cosmetic but even i was not happy with that. This is defanatley a flaw with ti's as none of my bevels are even , but ti make lovely razor s so thats why i buy them and they do shave very nice , some would say they can feel a crispy this also true. the chipping, i've checked mine regular , there was chipping on a brandnew one i brought , i had to hone it out. bart had the same problem after one or plus shaves he found slight chipping along the cutting edge .

what bart did to over come this was set bevel on one layer of tape. then addanother layer of tape and basicly do the unicot method. so its the unicot method but you start with one layer on the spine and then add second layer. this will solve your problem. other than that i think finishing on your ti paste should work as this will just convex the edge slightly . ti finish all there razors on bio diamond paste. you need 0.15 mm electrical tape. i'm sure bart will explain much better.

but you could try this method
 
tat2Ralfy said:
Great work Mike, as Gary says its all good :thumbup:

Also if the shave was ok you do indeed know you are almost there, I too would give it 100 on just water, followed by 60/60 on cloth/leather, that should dial the edge right in, if not then a very misty slurry, just as Gary says, if that fails you may want to consider checking it out at 30 or 60X mag, sometimes there are small (very) chips that go totally un-noticed, and they can throw the performance off.

Keep up the good work

Best wishes
Ralfson (Dr)
Click to expand...
The reason both these experts can say "go back to the hone" is that overhoning on a coticule has never been achieved, at least that I have heard of. I have done some experiments with the same razor on different coticules and the edge ended up with over a thousand strokes, X and half, and I didn't ever fear overdoing it and losing the edge. Try that on Crox. YT, Denny
 
garyhaywood said:
Deckard said:
I get that chippy thing going on with some of my ti's.
No matter what I do I'm unable to get rid of them, these edges tend to be catch pop on hht number 2 or 3 and shave is reasonable. Any advice?

Joe
Click to expand...

hi joe,

how did the edge i did for you hold up to chipping?

i own quite a thew ti's all of them are new ones. i have just sent my last one back because the bevel was absalutley awful, it looked like it had been honed a thousand times. the bevel was lik yours with a belly in the middle and realy thick in places and so uneven . it cost me £250 it cosmetic but even i was not happy with that. This is defanatley a flaw with ti's as none of my bevels are even , but ti make lovely razor s so thats why i buy them and they do shave very nice , some would say they can feel a crispy this also true. the chipping, i've checked mine regular , there was chipping on a brandnew one i brought , i had to hone it out. bart had the same problem after one or plus shaves he found slight chipping along the cutting edge .

what bart did to over come this was set bevel on one layer of tape. then addanother layer of tape and basicly do the unicot method. so its the unicot method but you start with one layer on the spine and then add second layer. this will solve your problem. other than that i think finishing on your ti paste should work as this will just convex the edge slightly . ti finish all there razors on bio diamond paste. you need 0.15 mm electrical tape. i'm sure bart will explain much better.

but you could try this method
Click to expand...

Hi Gary,

The one you did for me is the one I'm refering to.
Don't get me wrong, you have to look real hard at x 100 but they are there.
It's just that I looked at it under the scope when I got it back from you and it was a lovley straight line, no sign of micro chipping.
I know this is the older silver steel ti and I know that you did do some laps on paste.

The shaves are prety good, and I must admit I'm trying to resist the paste as I've been reading a ton off this site and would love to get a razor optimal form the stone only.

I've been doing a couple of half strokes only water only followed by 50 to 100 x strokes.
The chipping is occurring from just shaving and I found that water x strokes didn't seem to be offering any improvement. I've had some slight improvement but now where near where you had it, it was scary sharp and smooth as it gets.
 
Thanks. I will try that and see what I get, although it is just going to be dulled and start over after that. This is my test/practice razor so I'm pretty much just starting over after I shave with it to get better. It's a 13/16 so I figure by the time it gets to a 6/8 I should be alright at honing! :lol:
 
this is what bart noticed after shaving . i'm quite paranoid about the chiping and check my edges with, 30k loop under a 50 watt light, also hand held microscope at 60x.

how would you say the tiny chips have efected the shave? can you feel the roughness?

water on coticule won't budge those chips, if you have 4k 8k you could hone the edge on 4k untill the chips have gone , then polish on 8k with 20 laps then do 50 or so on coticule. or you will have to start from begining and do full dilucot i reckon it won't take much to remove. but if i was you i would do unicot , if you do let us no if the edge holds up better. It's a shame they chip.

gary
 
Deckard said:
garyhaywood said:
Deckard said:
I get that chippy thing going on with some of my ti's.
No matter what I do I'm unable to get rid of them, these edges tend to be catch pop on hht number 2 or 3 and shave is reasonable. Any advice?

Joe
Click to expand...

hi joe,

how did the edge i did for you hold up to chipping?

i own quite a thew ti's all of them are new ones. i have just sent my last one back because the bevel was absalutley awful, it looked like it had been honed a thousand times. the bevel was lik yours with a belly in the middle and realy thick in places and so uneven . it cost me £250 it cosmetic but even i was not happy with that. This is defanatley a flaw with ti's as none of my bevels are even , but ti make lovely razor s so thats why i buy them and they do shave very nice , some would say they can feel a crispy this also true. the chipping, i've checked mine regular , there was chipping on a brandnew one i brought , i had to hone it out. bart had the same problem after one or plus shaves he found slight chipping along the cutting edge .

what bart did to over come this was set bevel on one layer of tape. then addanother layer of tape and basicly do the unicot method. so its the unicot method but you start with one layer on the spine and then add second layer. this will solve your problem. other than that i think finishing on your ti paste should work as this will just convex the edge slightly . ti finish all there razors on bio diamond paste. you need 0.15 mm electrical tape. i'm sure bart will explain much better.

but you could try this method
Click to expand...

Hi Gary,

The one you did for me is the one I'm refering to.
Don't get me wrong, you have to look real hard at x 100 but they are there.
It's just that I looked at it under the scope when I got it back from you and it was a lovley straight line, no sign of micro chipping.
I know this is the older silver steel ti and I know that you did do some laps on paste.

The shaves are prety good, and I must admit I'm trying to resist the paste as I've been reading a ton off this site and would love to get a razor optimal form the stone only.

I've been doing a couple of half strokes only water only followed by 50 to 100 x strokes.
The chipping is occurring from just shaving and I found that water x strokes didn't seem to be offering any improvement. I've had some slight improvement but now where near where you had it, it was scary sharp and smooth as it gets.
Click to expand...


yes i did finish it with 10 laps on ti paste, the edge came up reraly well on the coticule, i just wanted to be sure it was sharp as could be. so it seems that pasted edge does'nt work, try unicot.
 
Nothing much I can add here, than of course a congratulation for Mike. Keep at it, things will only become better.:thumbup:

Deckard:
TI's and chipping edges during the shave. I have learned not to take any chances with the TI's I hone, hence I increase the bevel angle on all of them with 2 layers of tape. (tape thickness of 0.15mm). How odd it may seems that such a little angle increase (about 2 degrees) might make the difference, that's how it works for me. Based on the various experiences reported by various users, I suspect that beard coarseness is one of the contributing factors. I couldn't get more than 2 or 3 shaves from a new forgings Thiers Issard with the small chips completely taking over the edge. On old steel Thiers Issards, it depended, but as said, I've started taping them all.

Since I am taping them anyway, I usually use Unicot to hone them. I start with one or no tape and augment to 2 layers for the taped stages.

Thiers Issards remain among my favorite shavers.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
so bart if you hone with out tape. you add two layers to unicot?

if you hone with one layer , you add another two layers to unicot so 3 layers all together?
gary
 
garyhaywood said:
so bart if you hone with out tape. you add two layers to unicot?

if you hone with one layer , you add another two layers to unicot so 3 layers all together?
gary
Click to expand...

No, in the case of Thiers Issard, I always end with 2 layers of tape, but I might start with one and add the second one at the secondary bevel stage. Or I might start without tape; in that case I add 2 layers at the secondary bevel stage.
It works either way.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
garyhaywood said:
this is what bart noticed after shaving . i'm quite paranoid about the chiping and check my edges with, 30k loop under a 50 watt light, also hand held microscope at 60x.

how would you say the tiny chips have efected the shave? can you feel the roughness?

gary
Click to expand...

Hi Mike,
Firstly congrats on your progress, it would appear we are similar or there abouts with results.
Keep practicing I know I will, this honing thing can be quite compulsive.

I love ti's and have 3, they aint without there faults but I find this individualises them, I almost consider them custom builts having there own personality. Oh and they're terriffic shavers.

As for the shave, I do get a nice smooth and close shave but only the lightest of touches will work as you would with a shavette/ feather.

Although I think my shaving technique is pretty good, I dare say it's not up to that of a pro barber. Normally I would prefer a tiny amount of pressure, I know with this edge I would find it a tad grabby, I've already took one pretty bad lip cut (which is unusual for me) so I know the edge is keen.

Though I know I've adequate hone set up to try Gary's suggestions, I think I may succomb to the ti paste for this razor/steel. If number of shaves before touch up are low, I'll try unicot with X 2 tape as per Bart's recomendation.

By the way my historic full hollow snake wood ti from Steve I have is always a beutifull edge, off the HHT scale. Maybe I got lucky with this ti but I can't imagine a better shave as ti have got it spot on with this one.
 
Just thought I would mention that I set my first bevel today, and all I used is my coticule.

I bought a Clark razor off of ebay and polished it up a little just to remove water stains, it wasn't bad. But the edge was completely blunt, it had no bevel at all. I made a real thick slurry and just did sets of 50 half-strokes(and even threw in some of Emmanuel's ellipses which worked well) until I had a uniform bevel that shaved leg hair. The slurry was black by this point. I washed the coticule to better be able to see where I was at then started a normal dilucot. I got all the way to the point of being ready to splash water on the hone and my baby daughter woke up so I had to stop for the day. I will start again next time I get a chance with 1-2 rubs of the slurry stone and finish like in Gary's tips in the academy.
 
Great work Mike :thumbup:

Looking forward to hearing how you get on during round 2

Keep up the good work

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
kg4ghn said:
Just thought I would mention that I set my first bevel today, and all I used is my coticule.

I bought a Clark razor off of ebay and polished it up a little just to remove water stains, it wasn't bad. But the edge was completely blunt, it had no bevel at all. I made a real thick slurry and just did sets of 50 half-strokes(and even threw in some of Emmanuel's ellipses which worked well) until I had a uniform bevel that shaved leg hair. The slurry was black by this point. I washed the coticule to better be able to see where I was at then started a normal dilucot. I got all the way to the point of being ready to splash water on the hone and my baby daughter woke up so I had to stop for the day. I will start again next time I get a chance with 1-2 rubs of the slurry stone and finish like in Gary's tips in the academy.
Click to expand...
I am sure Mike you ll have a strong HHt.
Let us know.
Emmanuel
 
I haven't had time to mess with the Clark razor any more yet but I did shave again with the razor I honed in the original post and got a VERY good shave off of it(I haven't done anything else to the razor). So either stropping the razor for the second time brought it on up to where it needed to be or I just had one of those great shaves where nothing can go wrong. I will shave with it some more before going back to the hone to see what I get out of it.


I want to just take my coticule out and hone again and again until I get really good results CONSISTENTLY. Hard to find time with working 12 hour all night shifts and watching my baby daughter and trying to sleep every once in a while during the day.
 
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