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fixing high middle spot on razor

justalex

Well-Known Member
Hey guys, hope you enjoyed the coticule.be holiday. I've been looking for a solution to this and can't find a definitive answer, so I was wondering if I could get some tips on how to fix a high middle spot on razors when honing. I have a couple of no name razors that I used when starting to hone that were smiles that I honed as dead flat edge razors and they now have middle high spots, is there any way to repair them and regain the required shaped edge?

regards Alex
 
I'm not sure what you mean with "middle high spots"?

What I make of it, is that you honed smiling blades as if they were carrying a straight curve, and now are left with frowning curves?
A picture might be helpful here.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
I was just about to ask the same question, my understanding is the same as Bart's. :) A frowned edge can be seen here and, quite noticeable, here. If this is the case, and if the frown is minimal, you should adapt rolling strokes so that the smile will come back after a number of honing sessions. If the frown is more pronounced, you will have to work on a coarser stone, a DMT alike, or other in the 1k range to re-establish a proper edge shape.

You can also use a narrow stone for honing a frowned razor, but while it will make honing possible at all, it won't remove a frown. ;)

regards,
Matt
 
Matt, your first link is exactly what I'm on about. I tried to take a pic but, couldn't figure how to take a pic of such a subtle frown.

My early honing is coming back to haunt me :( The frowns are really quite minimal, its more like a mini frown or nested frown sort of stuck between two smiles. Would I be able to do the rolling x stroke and swaying x stroke using half strokes? I've been using them for other slight smiles using normal back and forth strokes

The spine wear is pretty straight on the razors, so could I use tape to save any chance of making the spine wavy?

cheers Alex
 
Its amazing how our early honing attempts have a way of coming back to haunt us :rolleyes:

My preferred way of dealing with frowns large or small, is to use a stone around the 1k mark, and hold the razor with the spine lifted off the stone, like sharpening a knife, I angle the blade so that most of the edge is touching the stone (instead of at around 90 degrees across, if you catch my drift?) and with the heel leading, I work with half strokes on each side of the blade, until the edge has the profile I am after, its like a much more gentle breadknifing.

From there I would tape the spine, and use black marker on the edge, and a rolling X stroke to set the bevel on the same low grit stone to set the bevel, once it was shaving arm hair with ease, I remove the tape, dull once over glass and hone as normal using the same rolling X on a Coticule. Simples!

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
I catch your drift Ralf, I watched gssixgun over at SRP do it. He made some good videos on how to shorten the time taken to hone from a breadknifed razor which involved gradually decreasing the angle from a right angle to the hone until your honing with the spine on the hone... I think he managed to set a bevel in 20 minutes if I remember correctly from a breadknifed razor. very educational.

I was enjoying the coti so much as well, I'll have to dig out my naniwa 1k its a nice light blue though, which makes a change from the coti beige, well the coti has to have one chink in its armour :rolleyes:

regards alex
 
Don't get me wrong, you could do it on a Coticule, it's just easier and faster on a low grit stone :thumbup:

If I am running low on patience, I will go at it with my 400 grit stone, takes horribly frowned edges to dead flat in 5 mins.

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
Thanks for the info ralf, I have a dmt 325 sitting, but I think I'll go slowly and carefully on this one, in case I blink and realise I've lost half a razor!

regards Alex
 
I'm going to affirm the advice to not use any "breadknifing" techniques in a case of only minimal loss of proper edge curve.
In fact, I think you should not attempt to undo the slight frown all in one sharpening job. The razor will hone up just fine with the curve as it is. If you adopt the kind of honing strokes that promote a smile, the edge will take on a nice slight smile during the course of a few future honing jobs.

I hone all razors, even the ones without smile, with rolling strokes. "Rolling" is actually not the best word. Many guys are exaggerating this rolling motion. It's more a kind of pressure shift than a true roll. It is always a good idea to watch the bead of fluid in front of the edge. The focus should only gradually shift, starting at the heel, over the middle, to the tip of the blade. It is thereby OK to do strokes that favor only a part of the blade. In this particular case, that would be the tip and the heel of the blade. But even then, this "rolling pressure shift" must be applied.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
On that note, shouldn't the strokes page description for that stroke be changed? it shows the razor lifting off the hone quite high and the description doesn't describe that its only a pressure shift and not a literal rolling stroke. I think it would avoid alot of confusion. I'll just use the smiling honing strokes for now and see how I go, your right in that the edges still shave quite well, but I like straight edges and spines with my straight razors, I'm a bit of a perfectionist.

regards Alex
 
Exerpt from the article about honing strokes:
Strokes_for_honing_a_razor said:
It is advisable to always put at least a minimal hint of roll in your strokes. On most razors, not so much a real roll is called for, but rather a gradual shift in pressure: first on the heel, over the middle to end on the tip. And the reverse of that while pulling the razor back during halfstokes.

Before starting halfstrokes, always take a moment to seek the right rolling curve for that razor. This can be achieved by performing a few slow X-strokes while closely monitoring how the fluid behaves in front of the edge. Basically, it has to first run up the heel, evolve to running up the middle halfway the stroke and run up the tip near the end of the stroke. 3 or 4 careful X-strokes is generally sufficient to find the right motion and lock it into muscle memory. Next, start the halfstrokes with the same curve. It's good procatice to occasionally stop for checking the edge with a TPT. At that point, re-calibrate the stroke in the same way as described above.

The animated illustration shows the motion a bit exaggerated for reasons of clarity, but there is enough elaboration in the text. I am aware that many people read diagonally on the Internet. But this website does not exist to accommodate for that. :D

Cheers,
Bart.
 
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