For all vintage hunters out there...

Matt

Well-Known Member
Quite a handy list of many German razor manufacturers from 1900 up to 1989 (may not be complete, but still, a pretty vast one):

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Found it while I was looking for some info on this sweetie I will try to bid.. :w00t:



kind regards,
Matt
 

Smythe

Well-Known Member
I come out of hibernation to comment on this one....

That pyramid logo stamped on the tang puts me in mind of a Geneva Cutlery Pyramid model. But it is unusual to find a triple ground full hollow pyramid model, so whoever manufactured it may be using a similar motif.

However, I suspect this razor has been "chopped"... that's my word for shorted to about 2 1/2" long... Before you bid, ask the seller for the measurements.

Nice wooden scales though.
 

Matt

Well-Known Member
Hm...

Well this idea didn't occur to me, I posted just a single photo, however there's another one:



My guess is that chance it's been "chopped" is far lesser now, isn't it?

Smythe said:
I come out of hibernation to comment on this one....

That pyramid logo stamped on the tang puts me in mind of a Geneva Cutlery Pyramid model. But it is unusual to find a triple ground full hollow pyramid model, so whoever manufactured it may be using a similar motif.
This is by Gottlieb Hammesfahr, Solingen. Triple ground? Why (where) three grinds?

And... what made you hibernate? :)

regards,
Matt
 

Smythe

Well-Known Member
Yes, the blade reaching all the way to the end of the scales when closed would suggest the blade is full length, however there a couple of things that tells me otherwise.

I have been collecting and restoring razors for some time, and in that time developed an eye for proportion. It is a known fact that 99% of all blades are 2 ¾ to 3 inch, but the size varies from 4/8, 5/8, 6/8, 7/8 or 8/8. My eyes tell me that razor would be the correct proportion if it were 7/8 or 8/8 size.
If you grab a normal 6/8th razor and hold it some distance between your eyes and the screen to “superimpose” your razor over the one on the screen, you will see your razor will be longer and your scales will be longer too… witch brings me to the scales.

The scales are not typical of vintage style celluloid with the fancy cut ends, I suspect they are wooden scales made recently by one of the many esteemed modern restorers.
The pinning is also not vintage, the pins do not seem to have the vintage locking collars.

Lastly, the notch at the point is very rare to see on full hollow ground blades because the blade near the edge is paper thin, and would not be enough metal in that area to support the edge at the point, that’s why you mostly see notches on near wedge blades.

My guess is it was once a square point (or spike point) but the tip somehow was broken and someone simply reground a "Spanish point", but the blade is now shorter for the original scales, so he simply made new scales out of wood, sized to fit the shorter blade.

I could still be wrong on all points but this is what experience tells me.

Hope this helps
 

Smythe

Well-Known Member
OK here are two photos illustrating what i am talking about.
Assuming the razor in question is 6/8th, I re-sized a photo of a 6/8 DD No1 razor and superimposed over the razor in question. as you can see the size is the same (6/8th) but the length of the razor in question off.
SizeLength.jpg

In the second photo the same DD No1 is repositioned over the scales, and if you look at the lines in Red you see a difference in length of the scales. the Red line through the pin at the butt end of the scales lines up perfectly however the lines at the pivot pins do not... this tells me the scales on the one in question is shorter to match the length of the blade.
SizeScale.jpg
Pictures don't lie... the photographer does not allow the photo to tell the whole truth.
 

rayman

Well-Known Member
Smythe,
The information you have provided here is incredibly valuable, thank you. The other thing, that is blatently noticible about this blade, is that it just doesn't look to be in the correct proportion. While looking at the width at the heel, you can see that it is too wide compared to its length.

Ray
 

Smythe

Well-Known Member
rayman said:
Smythe,
The information you have provided here is incredibly valuable, thank you. The other thing, that is blatently noticible about this blade, is that it just doesn't look to be in the correct proportion. While looking at the width at the heel, you can see that it is too wide compared to its length.

Ray
Exactly Ray... the blade just doesn't "look" proportionally correct.
 

Smythe

Well-Known Member
The way I see it (and I have been researching this for some time)... Triple Ground refers to the number different wheels the grinder uses to grind hollow ground blade (or the number of hollows on the blade)… it gets complicated… and one day I will make some illustrations to explain better.
Most modern straight razor blades are ground 3 times with three different sized wheels.

When the blank comes out of heat treatment it is almost a wedge, the grinder first puts the blade between to large wheels and cuts the first hollow all the way up to the tang (and now looks like an old near wedge hollow ground blade).
Second, he changes to smaller wheels and makes a second hollow in the belly of the blade well behind the edge, but stops at the heel leaving that stabilizing piece at the tang (that “stair step” cut at the intersection of the tang and the heel).
Then he changes to another set of wheels and cuts a third hollow at the very edge to thin the area near the edge… but you won’t see that hollow because the finisher smooths it so it looks rounded.

This gives the full hollow ground blade that “hour glass” or “spear” look at the cross section view.
You could also call them Triple Hollow Ground razors.
 

Smythe

Well-Known Member
matis said:
And... what made you hibernate? :)

regards,
Matt
I have been in hibernation from the forums. These last few weeks have been hectic, 3 new urgent projects requested by clients (and I thought we were in a recession), 4 computer crashes at the office (one or two not so bad but four hard drive crashes???), and the wife giving me the “eye”… so I did what any responsible father/husband would do… set aside my favorite hobby until things gets back to normal… after all the hobby does not pay the bills lolol.

I still read the posts, and my computer is on 24/7, so you may see me logged in but I am just not in front of the screen as often as I should be… but I needed to comment after reading this post.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Cedrick,
Yesterday I wrote to my friend Robin: "I always liked people who only speak when they can add something meaningful to a conversation".
Your presence over here is not valued by how much you posts your write, or by their length, but by how helpful they are. I think you're spot on with the assessment of that picture.

Take your time, don't work too hard and give your loved ones the attention they deserve.
We're more than happy with what's left.
Ray and I can handle it. :lol:

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
+1 from Me Sir Cedrick, of course I have missed you but absinthe makes the heart etc :thumbup:
(Slacker) Hahahahahahaha
 

Matt

Well-Known Member
Hm :)

Somehow the link I posted in the thread starter didn't get enough attention, but the razor did. :lol:

Whooa, that's a hefty load of useful information, sirs! Thank you!

Now I gotta make up my mind or maybe I will ask the seller, although I don't he believe he either will know anything like this (primarily), or that he will frankly say how things are. The auction ends today, and there's someone after it already, so why would he mind... :sneaky:

However, even if it is the case (your arguments seem pretty strong), should this notch be of concern? Will it affect the blade stability during shaving, or honing? The whole concept of "blade stability" is (as of now - I took this sport merely a year ago) purely theorethical to me :)

kind regards,
Matt
 

Matt

Well-Known Member
Now that you mentioned it all...



Indeed, the jimps area is far too long compared to the rest of the blade... Yet, the question above remains, anybody, please?

kind regards,
Matt[/quote]
 

rayman

Well-Known Member
matis said:
Hm :)


However, even if it is the case (your arguments seem pretty strong), should this notch be of concern? Will it affect the blade stability during shaving, or honing? The whole concept of "blade stability" is (as of now - I took this sport merely a year ago) purely theorethical to me :)

kind regards,
Matt
Matt,
I would have an issue with that notch. Its formation seems to have been made on the edge of a grinder, and it's not a very good representation of a barbers notch at that. Given that assumption, however, I would be hesitant at purchasing this razor because that simple lack of experience to form the notch would indicate to me that it was most likely overheated. Maybe to the point that the temper could have been lost in the front part of that blade. If that were the case, and I can't guarantee that it was, you will never be able to hold an edge on that part of the blade.

On the other hand, I have seen a few blades that have been shortened properly, and there didn't seem to be a stability problem with them.

Just my thoughts.

Ray
 

Matt

Well-Known Member
Gentlemen,

That was really helpful. I lowered my maximum bid and finally didn't buy it, so either you prevented me from getting piece of crap, or a fantastic shaver. :lol: :lol:

Jokes aside, I would have no idea to consider so many aspects, thank you very much again!!

kind regards,
Matt
 
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