Honing Help Please?

[Bart]

I do have a microscope. The edge actually looks pretty darn good. I'm going to try one more thing and if it doesn't work I'm going to start over with the unicot method.

I'm really at a loss here. Sounds like a the razor is still dull. Well polished, but dull.

There is one returning constant in your honing report.

This is about annoying. I've done everything suggested, more than once and still getting nothing good off this razor. It really seems as though it is getting duller. Won't pass any tests and won't shave at all.

I got my Thurnigan out. (...)

So, I've got it where I am wanting it...almost. I want a bit more out of it. I am going to do another 50-60 on the Thurry and see where that takes me.
(...)
2nd UPDATE:

50 on Thurry w/ plain water. 20 on pasted linen, 60 on leather. Razor got duller. Back to pulling.

That's two times the razor got duller, while it should have become better, or at least stayed the same.
That could indicate an issue with your honing stroke.

What kind of paste do you have on that linen?

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[rickboone]

I can't help but think the bevel isn't set as it should be. What I'm seeing on the scope is a darn nicely polished and smooth bevel but the bevel just isn't set/ cut yet to the desired degree which would create a nice edge.

I have no paste on my linen, not the one I've used. I have diamond sprays on leather and CrOx on leather but I'm really starting to not care for the pastes all that much. I've long felt they produce a false feel and don't last long.

Thinking it may be my stropping I started thinking...none of my other razors are getting dull or anything after I strop them, but I wanted to try one more thing. I did 100 w/ water on coticule. I did 40 w/ water on Thurry. I shaved straight off the rocks, horrible. I did 30 laps on latigo tried again...a bit smoother, tiny bit but still pulling.

So, I took it and dulled it on glass. I'm about to start over on the unicot process and see what comes about.

Rightly so, it very well could be my honing stroke. I have watched all sorts of videos and am trying my best to replicate. Perhaps I could produce a video to illustrate what I am doing?

Bart- I don't recall if I have asked this or not. I will post pics too. Have you seen/ heard of a coticule w/ D. Sheilds stamped on it?

 

[Bart]

I can't help but think the bevel isn't set as it should be. What I'm seeing on the scope is a darn nicely polished and smooth bevel but the bevel just isn't set/ cut yet to the desired degree which would create a nice edge.

If you started with a dull edge, not shaving anything, and you can now shave (arm) hair along the entire edge, there is no doubt that the bevel is properly set. It might lack the keenness you want, but there is no way the edge could have started to gain any sharpness, before the bevel was flat and fully extending to the very edge. There's one exception: the use of pasted strops. But you used hones to get it shaving again.

I have no paste on my linen, not the one I've used.

You typed "20 on pasted linen", that's why I asked.

I have diamond sprays on leather and CrOx on leather but I'm really starting to not care for the pastes all that much. I've long felt they produce a false feel and don't last long.

For now, I would certainly stay away from pastes. The can convex the bevel, which is at this point in the learning curve just an additional complication. I recommend to not use any pastes before you can easily produce a good edge off a hone.

So, I took it and dulled it on glass. I'm about to start over on the unicot process and see what comes about.

That is a good plan. Whatever you do, pick a method in which you can put your trust, and stay with it till you can successfully use it. I personally really don't care if it's Unicot on a Coticule. Lynn Abrahms Pyramids on a Norton 4/8K, or any other approach. But doing a bit of this and then a bit of that, is without any doubt the quickest way to frustration.

Rightly so, it very well could be my honing stroke. I have watched all sorts of videos and am trying my best to replicate. Perhaps I could produce a video to illustrate what I am doing?

That could be very meaningful.

Bart- I don't recall if I have asked this or not. I will post pics too. Have you seen/ heard of a coticule w/ D. Sheilds stamped on it?

No, I've never heard that name. But there were many Coticule companies and even more importers, "re-branders" and re-sellers.

Concerning Smythe's input: has that Genco ever shaved well at some earlier point, prior to this honing adventure?

We'll get to the bottom of this. :thumbup:

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[tat2Ralfy]

I have a Genco wedge that was a mare to hone before I had the experience that I now have, it has turned into the smoothest of shavers, from my somewhat limited experience I would say the Genco is not the easiest to hone, but is still a honeable razor, can I ask what grind yours is?

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)

 

[rickboone]

I have pasted leathers, possibly that is what I meant? I don't know, I've done so much shit to this thing. It was early in the morning when I typed that message. Darn razor kept me up all night.

Starting over.

Will take pics and video.

No clue what grind it is. Perhaps you can tell from the photos?

Okay, it's good to know the bevel was set. Makes me really wonder how/ where I'm losing this thing!!! I do usually two types of strokes/ honing which I will attempt to video. One is handheld, the other is not. I find I do do the lightest strokes handheld.

I agree there are many ways to hone, for now it is my mission to use this coticule to get a shaving edge off it.

I tried Pyramid thinking it may fix something and it did nothing. Gosh, everything I have tried has failed. It really is leaning towards my honing stroke. Hmmm.....

I plan to learn one thing before moving onto another.

It will be a while, takes freaking forever to upload to Utube.

Odd question...can you use dog hair for your HHT? I seem to have an abundance of it.

How can I get email notification you guys have posted here? I get it for every other message, but not ones I've created...

BTW, it is a Genco Henry's X. Genevea, NY US

 

[Bart]

Odd question...can you use dog hair for your HHT? I seem to have an abundance of it.

I don't know. The HHT is all about correlating the way the hair severs to the quality of the shave.
I know that it's a pretty consistent test, after a Coticule, when you use a thick, clean human hair.
I reckon you've read the HHT-article?

How can I get email notification you guys have posted here? I get it for every other message, but not ones I've created...

You can manage your notifications under the "Machine Room"-menu, "Personal Data".
Here's a direct link: http://www.coticule.be/account.html. At the "subscriptions" field, tick "My own tickets and topics" and "Tickets and topics I contributed to". You won't receive notifications of the posts you've typed yourself, which is only logical: you already know you've made these. But when someone else answers, you should receive e-mail, when those two options are toggled on.

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[Smythe]

.......created...

BTW, it is a Genco Henry's X. Genevea, NY US

I suggest you get another razor.

 

[rickboone]

.......created...

BTW, it is a Genco Henry's X. Genevea, NY US

I suggest you get another razor.

I've had others say the Genco's hone up nicely and aren't bad to learn on. Interesting. Sadly though, it's the only thing I have to hone. This one and one other Genco. I'm trying to find some others but nothing is turning up. Everything else I have is shave ready.

Here's a video of me honing this razor...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9hgFStxI0c

Another... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng3w7DSC4NQ

Stropping. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTREt1ASj2w

 

[rickboone]

I couldn't figure out how to post pics here. Nor do links, so forgive post above and all the copying and pasting...

But here's some pics of the cot...

 

[rickboone]

Alright....

I am back to square 1. I dulled the edge on glass. Checked, shaved arm hair. Across glass again. Check. Still shaving. Once more. Check arm hair. Nope, not shaving it.

Create slurry. Add water. 30 half strokes. Add water. 30 half strokes. Check arm hair. Nothing. I've done this 3 times so far and no arm hair. The first time I did it it took me literally about 50+ sets of 1/2 strokes.

 

[Paul]

ok... so, I watched your video, and it reminded me of when I first started honing. I saw slow strokes executed without confidence. What that tells me is that you just have some time to go and some work to do. Don't be too frustrated, but enjoy the journey. You'll be fine if you stick with it! :thumbup:

 

[rickboone]

ok... so, I watched your video, and it reminded me of when I first started honing. I saw slow strokes executed without confidence. What that tells me is that you just have some time to go and some work to do. Don't be too frustrated, but enjoy the journey. You'll be fine if you stick with it! :thumbup:

Thanks for the feedback. Is there anything I need to change about the stroke?

 

[Smythe]

OK… In the first video don’t see your slurry changing color (should turn gray)… if you are setting bevels you need to remove steel… when it changes color it means the steel getting cut (that's usually a good sign at this stage)… you may want to do some half strokes with some pressure... check out this post http://www.coticule.be/the-cafeteria/topic/425.html.
And the U-Tube video in the same post

Love the videos… reminds me of my son… likes to play with the strop… especially when I am, stropping. :scared:

EDIT: I should also add...
Hone happy, relaxed and un-distracted

 

[rickboone]

OK… In the first video don’t see your slurry changing color (should turn gray)… if you are setting bevels you need to remove steel… when it changes color it means the steel getting cut (that's usually a good sign at this stage)… you may want to do some half strokes with some pressure... check out this post http://www.coticule.be/the-cafeteria/topic/425.html.
And the U-Tube video in the same post

Love the videos… reminds me of my son… likes to play with the strop… especially when I am, stropping. :scared:

EDIT: I should also add...
Hone happy, relaxed and un-distracted

Yeah, it was fun getting the family involved. Baby wanted to be around Mama and I needed her to hold the camera for a moment. It worked out though. I typically hone when everyone is asleep. No distractions.

As far as slurry goes, I did only those few strokes just to illustrate how I am honing so as to get feedback if I need correction.

 

[Smythe]

OK… In the first video don’t see your slurry changing color (should turn gray)… if you are setting bevels you need to remove steel… when it changes color it means the steel getting cut (that's usually a good sign at this stage)… you may want to do some half strokes with some pressure... check out this post http://www.coticule.be/the-cafeteria/topic/425.html.
And the U-Tube video in the same post

Love the videos… reminds me of my son… likes to play with the strop… especially when I am, stropping. :scared:

EDIT: I should also add...
Hone happy, relaxed and un-distracted

Yeah, it was fun getting the family involved. Baby wanted to be around Mama and I needed her to hold the camera for a moment. It worked out though. I typically hone when everyone is asleep. No distractions.

Great... I should have suspected that :

Now put some pressure on that blade with half strokes (not so much that the point end starts to flex), and follow the instructions in that post.

Please let us know how it's working out.

 

[rickboone]

OK… In the first video don’t see your slurry changing color (should turn gray)… if you are setting bevels you need to remove steel… when it changes color it means the steel getting cut (that's usually a good sign at this stage)… you may want to do some half strokes with some pressure... check out this post http://www.coticule.be/the-cafeteria/topic/425.html.
And the U-Tube video in the same post

Love the videos… reminds me of my son… likes to play with the strop… especially when I am, stropping. :scared:

EDIT: I should also add...
Hone happy, relaxed and un-distracted

Yeah, it was fun getting the family involved. Baby wanted to be around Mama and I needed her to hold the camera for a moment. It worked out though. I typically hone when everyone is asleep. No distractions.

Great... I should have suspected that :

Now put some pressure on that blade with half strokes (not so much that the point end starts to flex), and follow the instructions in that post.

Please let us know how it's working out.

Exactly what I'm doing my friend. Well, I've done about 4 sets of half strokes with finger in middle and pressure. Not shaving arm hair yet. Right now I'm polishing off what was in the bottle.....

 

[Paul]

Rick,

Check out Bart's use of half-strokes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xjr5Kd6mTWI&playnext_from=TL&videos=30RhfbNa7V8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkxyaJLI58k&playnext_from=TL&videos=6i_9sTeM1iw

Don't try to duplicate his speed, but focus on duplicating the stroke

You'll get there.

 

[rickboone]

Half strokes...

Do you lift the razor and just do downward strokes or are you keeping the razor on the hone at all times down and up?

>>>>> or ><><><><><><><><><>

 

[Smythe]

Don't lift... Keep it on the hone all the time.
Only lift when you flip to do the other side.

 

[rickboone]

This is making a difference. Somehow. I'm not quite cutting arm hair yet, but it is improving seemingly. Perhaps lifting on the half strokes was not working or slowing things down a bit?