Interesting discussion in a german forum

[Tok]

Here it is:

http://www.gut-rasiert.de/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=6f0a2aa6fc96d60f30e7a48563d1563b&topic=12605.75

For those, who can´t read german: It´s about the Dilucot and Unicot methods. There´s a lot of noise, including the age-old question, whether this is a suitable way for a honing newbie, but the one thing I found interesting was one of the guys there, who has a lot of positive reputation tried the methods on other natural finishers and came to the conclusion, that this is not about the hone, but about the method. Meaning, you can use nearly any other natural finisher. The hones he tried are mostly slate, by the way.
He didn´t say which method he tried, by the way.

Any thoughts?

Regards,
Tok

 

[Guest]

Any thoughts?

A few. All of them actionable.

This thread can easily be summed up like this: None of the alpha males read the texts, or if they did, they did not understand them. The users who actually did found the method to be easy to use, and the instructions clearly and well written.

The rest is, as you quite rightly said, noise.

Regards,
Robin

 

[Tok]

Hmm, did anyone ever test the Dilucot or Unicot on other natural finishers? I´m pretty sure that Unicot would work on a lot of them. But Dilucot…?

My main thought was, that it´s mostly a question of time. I mean, You can get a shaveready razor from scratch, using a coticule (or any other finisher) with water only, it just takes you like weeks.

Regards,
Tok

 

[BlueDun]

Yeah, I've been following that thread too and as you can see I did also post some lines.
I gave it a thorough thought if I should chime in with some defending lines for the coti after the noise started to increase in the last couple of days. But I decided not to do so. There are way too many overboiling discussions about this hone and that method and why this particular one is the only one. I feel that any postulate in defense of the coti would turn this thread defintely in the wrong direction. So far it's about exchanging personal experiences and opinions from experienced honers and newbies alike. And that's how a forum should work.
Usually, on gut-rasiert.de the members are on familiar terms with each other without the nasty messianic tone at times seen in other places. I'm counting on the boys that they will not disappoint me

 

[wdwrx]

Hmm, did anyone ever test the Dilucot or Unicot on other natural finishers? I´m pretty sure that Unicot would work on a lot of them. But Dilucot…?

My main thought was, that it´s mostly a question of time. I mean, You can get a shaveready razor from scratch, using a coticule (or any other finisher) with water only, it just takes you like weeks.

Regards,
Tok

I'm not sure how relevant it is to this question, but 20 years ago i was taught to use a slurry to hone chisels and plane irons, as it sped up the honing. It wasn't part of a regime, so much as simply a binary system; start by raising slurry, and then rinse and use an unslurried stone. As I think about it, "taught" is a pretty strong word, but I'm sure it was mentioned. I never brought it into practice, as I never got into sharpening anymore than as needed to keep the tools semi-functional. And then, on the job-site, of course, I never had time to bother so, as often as not, the belt sander was the fastest, easiest method.
FWIW, I find that dilutions on both my Thüringer stone and my J-fakes and j-nats has worked really well.

 

[Bart]

Hmm, did anyone ever test the Dilucot or Unicot on other natural finishers? I´m pretty sure that Unicot would work on a lot of them. But Dilucot…?

My main thought was, that it´s mostly a question of time. I mean, You can get a shaveready razor from scratch, using a coticule (or any other finisher) with water only, it just takes you like weeks.

Regards,
Tok

A while ago, someone pointed me to a thread on one of the larger shaving forums where 2 guys had found a "one hone method" that worked on most sharpening stones, so was claimed. There was a video. A man with a beard showed how it had to be done. He started with sharpening on a 1K stone, and then used a diluting strategy on a finishing hone (can't recall what it was). By my way of counting, that's two hones he used.

But I do think that razors can be sharpened with a minimal setup, even outside the Coticule family. Most users of multiple synthetic hones, use the same modus operandi on all the hones in their progression, meaning: water on top, weight-of-the-razor pressure, X-strokes.
But if one's prepared to use a wider range of strategies, the abrasive capacities of a whetstone can be expanded in both directions.
I think that with both Unicot and Dilucot, Coticules really are being used to the limits of what they can do: slurry, some pressure and aggressive strokes for the low end; water, gentleness and X-strokes for the high end. And even then, we recently discovered ways to push the keenness threshold even further. I think that the typical "progressive" honer reaches for his next hone as soon things become a bit more challenging. There is of course nothing wrong with that, it's just a different way of doing things.

Here is one of my favorite movie scenes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zs5WiddD7i0
What strikes me the most, is how he uses the same knife for a variety of tasks. In a way, he uses that knife with the same diligence as we on Coticule.be use our Coticules. It is rewarding to do.

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[wdwrx]

Just a further side-track of this thread, I just now thought I'd try a "dilucot" (in the strictest sense of the word possible when not using a coticule), and dulled a razor and took it to my Thüringer stone. No problems. Fast, easy, and totally effective. Doesn't really surprise me much as I've used my thurri in the past to repair some damage to a blade I was struggling with. I probably wont bother shaving with it as i don't really like edges off my thüringer, though the sharpness test lead me to believe it is adequate to the task. So there.B)

 

[tat2Ralfy]

I too have successfully complete the "diluthur" on one of the new ones, now I have my "proper" vintage one I shall endeavour to repeat it, tbh it worked well for me, and I have no reason to see why the technique can't be adapted for other naturals too.

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)

 

[DJKELLY]

I too have successfully complete the "diluthur" on one of the new ones, now I have my "proper" vintage one I shall endeavour to repeat it, tbh it worked well for me, and I have no reason to see why the technique can't be adapted for other naturals too.

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)

Hi Inky--I orignally thought that dilucot worked on coticules because the garnet slurry did not break down like in Japanese Naturals, but I have yet to accomplish making a Jnat slurry break down. Consequently, dilucot, or diluJnat, works for me, too. I have seen tiny metal swarf in Jnat slurry and that might be what is talked about, but slurry breakdown and a huge increase in grit rating has been elusive to me. Letting the slurry dry and finishing on that hasn't been eye opening either.

On another slurry note, I was podering the other day if somethimes light slurry like that used in Gaz' tips might work just like wax on the surface of the hone by filling in some indentations in the surface of the hone or allowing the blade to float above the surface a little and only hit the higher spots.


All this to let you know that I do think every now and then. The Yankee Rebel. No. Rebel Yankee.

 

[TM280]

Denny,

No yankee, no happy ending!

Clearly, you have not been introduced to the proper shinto rituals for slurry handling with Japanese hones. I suggest a long layover in Kyoto where you can apprentice to traditional temple building monks, sharpening chisels all day, razors all night, until you manage to engage both the steel spirits and rocks spirits in a dance of perfect harmony...

(noise be damned...)

regards,
Torolf

 

[DJKELLY]

I have spent a lot of time in Japan and they are something else. They are so serious, they would not allow an apprentice to have the best quality tools as he did not yet deserve them.