mellow edges

[Emmanuel]

I thought the same way, "I struggled with X. Therefore, I would not recommend X to new honers." Not to argue with Gary, but my LPB was easier to learn than any stone I've gotten since. My brother also learned on it, and he found other stratas to be challenging as well while the lpb was "easier".

I think the key is buy one, learn it, and don't worry about it...

Me too Paul my friend i don't argue with you, however the disagreements in a discussion give a healthy discussion according the Greek philosophers.
Best regards
Emmanuel

 

[garyhaywood]

i'm guessing that all named layer could also vary?

gary

Every coticule from the same layer has same characteristics bat always there are minor differences.
A friend gave me as gift a Les latneuses not hybrid ,is a coticule stuck on a slate. It is a very smooth hone like a glass , moderate in slurry and very slow on water. I tried only this of Les Latneuses i am not sure that the whole strata has same characteristics. How is going the yours Mates?
Best regards
Emmanuel

my leslat yellow side is fast on slurry , feels very mucg lie glass on water. I have had hard time at first , then al of a sudden i got the edge i wanted, it was smooth, the other side is easier(hybrid or i just clickedwith it) both sides gives similar edges.

At the moment i'm using my LV with great sucess, ad i have a feling this will be my main hone for quite some time. the hybrid side has ben my main honer. I always felt using hybrid side was masterd, and i wanted to master my more traditional yellow coticules. So thats why i have moved on to others in my collection.

Its realy strange but i found my lv all though there slow on water, i can realy get the edge up there on water, by using some pressure on water then lighter strokes, plus i use your refreshing surface and it works or helps , als using strop bacthen back to stone all these things get me what i want, on this stone

 

[Emmanuel]

Cheers Gary.
Emmanuel

 

[chti_lolo]

I must admit that like Gary and Emmanuel, I find my La Veinette easier than my LPB.
As a beginner (before using a coticule, I had never used a hone), I think that my La Veinette is easer because
I can reach more keeness after the slurry stage.
As to feel the difference between the edges , it's very difficult to me(but I consider myself also as a beginner in straight razor shaving : )

Regards

Laurent

 

[tzee]

La Grosse Blanche is the mellowest that I've thus experienced. The stone that I've tried produces an edge that seems, or should I say sounds, dull, but effortlessly removes hair. I can now understand why some people do not prefer such an edge, instead opting for keener edges.

I think it's time for us to admit that different Coticules produce different edges instead of brushing the subject under the rug. The fact of the matter is that they are not the same, and that there are differences in the end result. True, they may all be smoother than a Norton 4/8k, but let's agree that some are smoother than others.

My La Nouvelle Vein produces the keenest and mellowest edges of all of my stones, but I give the nod to the La Grosse Blanche for being the mellowest. I want to experiment more with the La Grise on mineral oil after trying it once and finding the result intriguing.

Maybe I'm imagining it, but it seems that the LGB that I tested is fast on both slurry and water, which I find interesting.

 

[garyhaywood]

I no a mellow edge when i shave with one. as for identifying engaging or brisk im never sure on that catorgory.there is no dout that the results of honing can differ. I honed my john clarkes up on my la grosse jaune about six months months ago. i shaved at the gym, so i remeber. the razor was perfect, in my test the razor was good but not as smooth or nice as the shave at the gym with same stone, thats how it goes . Coticules will surprise you, you will see, each time you hone. as for differ. my naniwas differd my nortons also differd. At one time i thought my coticule edges were good, they did get much better then a realized the differance. the nortons beleive it or not, i did have some smooth shaves of the 8k, it is also possable it just takes parctice and time.

i sugest if you want to get the correct feel of your stones. do dilucot to your very best. test shave.

then add layer of tape 0.15mm and do 30 to what ecver strokes on water untill you get a hht max of stone, which with nicot you ca easily get 3/4 hht . normal takes 60 to 90 laps on water only. then shave. and compare that to your dilucot edge. see if there is a differance. Thats the only way you will no.

If the razor with unicot is smoother and keener, you no your dilucot edge was'nt quite there, ths loss of mellowness etc. If its identical then you did have a great dilucot. this way you can judge edge much more better , repeat it twice on same razor , or a razor you no realy well. I have had identical shaves of my lgb using both methods, as in feel as i'm shaving. I have also had better shaves of unicot, due to dilucot not being quite there. either way you will eventauly get a great edge , which way should'nt matter, if its the stone you want t shave of, plus i hear you say you have sensative skin. Giveeach method ago, i'd be interested in seeing how it works out?

gary

the differance ca also be the razor , do this also use a very low angle , but i mean low, with the gain acros the gain, keep an angle of 5 to 10 dergress. against the grain, literaly flat, let us no if that helps, i find it makes for a much smoother shave ,

 

[tzee]

I always use tape when honing and follow something similar to Dilucot.

I'm getting great edges now that I know will only get better. I've just noticed that different Coticules do provide different edges, and in this case I was praising the LGB, and even the LNV. With both of these stones I rinse often on water after every two sets of half/x-strokes, resulting in amazing edges. The LGB is particularly fast on both water and slurry, yet the edge it yields is buttery smooth, and I mean that literally.

I'm not discounting the possibility of making any Coticule behave the way you want it to, for instance you can dial back the keenness with 10 laps or so on misty slurry. You can use oil. The possibilities are nearly endless.

 

[garyhaywood]

you always use tape and do somthing similar to dilucot? you do whole dilucot with one layer of tape, thats fine but no differant to doing dilucot with no tape, have you ever tryed adding another layer of tape and forming a another bevel (unicot)? does'nt matter if your getting results you want, just thought it maybe worth trying, so you can compare and see if there is any differance. the unicot method just insures your normal dilucot method is spot on, if you compare both.

i did'nt no if you owned a la grosse blanch? i persume you do now? I have to say i have had one for a couple or thre weeks and the edges are nice and buttery, same as my la vainette . yes there is a slight diferance . One thing i don't beleive, and never wi is the comment how freind sham made, tat some coticules leave 4k edge and some leave 8k edge. that is not true. he also says he has special coticule that is 12k to 15k with slurry , i shaved with a razor of that stone honed by him. i tell you now my la grosse blanch must be very special coticule :

 

[tzee]

Yes, I always use tape. I don't follow Dilucot exactly. I'd say it's closer to Unicot with tape. I set the bevel on a different hone. My understanding of Unitcot is that you start without tape, and add it later. Dilucot consists of intermittently diluting the slurry until it runs clear. Nonetheless, I'm happy with the results thus far.

I have a LGB at the moment. I'm very impressed with it. If La Veinette Coticules provide a similar edge, then I can see myself being a fan of that vein.

Out of curiosity, how does your La Dressante au Bleu compare?

 

[garyhaywood]

read in the sharpening acadamey you will under stand more clear on unicot and dilucot.

compared to la drassante au blue? i would say the lgb is realy buttery. I acatuly do like this lgb, so if i'm onest the lgb has been so easy to work with and the edges are very buttery and very mellow. i do like the lgb. the la drassante au blue has given me smooth shaves that have very soft and gentle, there is a differant feel , if i had a choice lgb would win, whre did you get your lgb from, woud'nt mind seeing apicture, have you borrowed it purchased it.

cheers gary

 

[Bart]

La Grosse Blanche is the mellowest that I've thus experienced. The stone that I've tried produces an edge that seems, or should I say sounds, dull, but effortlessly removes hair. I can now understand why some people do not prefer such an edge, instead opting for keener edges.

How can anyone want an edge that is keener than one that "effortlessly removes hair"?
For the record, I don't think I can ever discern between "brisk", "engaging" and "mellow" edges during the shave. My skin tells me the difference afterwards.

I think it's time for us to admit that different Coticules produce different edges instead of brushing the subject under the rug. The fact of the matter is that they are not the same, and that there are differences in the end result. True, they may all be smoother than a Norton 4/8k, but let's agree that some are smoother than others.

Yes, I always use tape. I don't follow Dilucot exactly. I'd say it's closer to Unicot with tape. I set the bevel on a different hone. My understanding of Unitcot is that you start without tape, and add it later. Dilucot consists of intermittently diluting the slurry until it runs clear. Nonetheless, I'm happy with the results thus far.

Nothing is rubbed under the rug, here. When Cotocule.be started, the first goal of the Vault testing, was to establish difference between Coticules. If there were significant finishing differences to be obtained from different Coticules, there would be a clear consensus about that by now.
What we do notice, is that if someone picks a set routine without much deviation, he will get differing results of different Coticules. But if you take the time to find the ideal approach for all individual Coticules, the end results are all highly alike.

We have a member who insists on one set routine, and his conclusion was that only a very small percentage of Coticules are capable of a decent shaving edge. It was probably true for the specific routine he used.

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[tat2Ralfy]

I do believe that we have found, if you get the best possible edge off any different layer, your face will only ever find tiny differences, the OP of this thread Gary, is working his way through his collection, and I am sure he will agree

I do not believe there is a man alive that could tell which layer honed which razor in a blind test, the differences in feel on the skin are just too subtle

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)

 

[garyhaywood]

i think the best way , would be to unicot method of your stones. This will give max edge and a better idea. I wanted to mention i unicotted my dovo on my lpb. todays shave was very buttery/smoothy/dull feeling which is tyical for coticule. my dilucot on lpb, i can onestly say was not as smooth and buttery/ shaved well, but did'nt feel as nice as unicot. i must have not maxed out with dilucot. when io did dilucot first on my lgb it was smooth mellow shave and i like that. i did unicot on lgb , it was identical. so any one wanting to test there coticules test razor with first dilucot, 2nd unicot on same razor, so all you need to is add layer to dilucotted edge and perform unicot final stages, i jst do laps on water untill hht max's out.normally takes 50 to 80 laps aprox.

gary

 

[tzee]

La Grosse Blanche is the mellowest that I've thus experienced. The stone that I've tried produces an edge that seems, or should I say sounds, dull, but effortlessly removes hair. I can now understand why some people do not prefer such an edge, instead opting for keener edges.

How can anyone want an edge that is keener than one that "effortlessly removes hair"?
For the record, I don't think I can ever discern between "brisk", "engaging" and "mellow" edges during the shave. My skin tells me the difference afterwards.

I think it's time for us to admit that different Coticules produce different edges instead of brushing the subject under the rug. The fact of the matter is that they are not the same, and that there are differences in the end result. True, they may all be smoother than a Norton 4/8k, but let's agree that some are smoother than others.

Yes, I always use tape. I don't follow Dilucot exactly. I'd say it's closer to Unicot with tape. I set the bevel on a different hone. My understanding of Unitcot is that you start without tape, and add it later. Dilucot consists of intermittently diluting the slurry until it runs clear. Nonetheless, I'm happy with the results thus far.

Nothing is rubbed under the rug, here. When Cotocule.be started, the first goal of the Vault testing, was to establish difference between Coticules. If there were significant finishing differences to be obtained from different Coticules, there would be a clear consensus about that by now.
What we do notice, is that if someone picks a set routine without much deviation, he will get differing results of different Coticules. But if you take the time to find the ideal approach for all individual Coticules, the end results are all highly alike.

We have a member who insists on one set routine, and his conclusion was that only a very small percentage of Coticules are capable of a decent shaving edge. It was probably true for the specific routine he used.

Kind regards,
Bart.

Basically, you're saying that I can't tell the difference because I'm not following Dilucot exactly, correct? For clarity's sake, I'm not questioning methodology, or even arguing that only some Coticules can produce shave ready edges. The only point I'm making is that Coticules can produce, however so slightly, varied edges. In the case of our discussion, some provide mellower edges than others. Some do not enjoy buttery mellow edges.

I agree with Dr Ralfy that the majority of us would most likely be unable to accurately identify the Coticule used to produce the edge. However, I do believe that we could provide feedback on which edges were mellower than others. And in all honesty, I cannot provide scientific evidence to prove that LGB is indeed the mellowest. It is merely my layman observation.

 

[Bart]

Basically, you're saying that I can't tell the difference because I'm not following Dilucot exactly, correct?

No, that is not what I'm saying.

I'm a sound engineer. Not by daily profession, it's more a free lance activity.
When sound engineers are setting up the stage, one thing to do is to eliminate feedback frequencies between microphones and foldback monitors. It's a matter of careful placement and equalization. The latter requires an experienced ear to recognize the frequencies that are bound to cause feedback. It's different of every stage, every microphone and every monitor. Without going to deep in the details, it's a matter of cranking up the volume and eliminating the frequencies that start to feedback, until you've reached a point where feedback starts to occur on all frequencies. That's when you know that you've hit the best you can get.
As long as there are separate frequencies sticking out, the job is not done. That's where I see a metaphor with Coticule honing.

For someone who owns multiple Coticules, as long as he has one that feels in any way sharper or smoother during the shave, that person is not done figuring out all the Coticules he owns.
It's perfectly acceptable that someone is not even prepared to figure out all his hones so thoroughly, and there definitely is not one single uniform procedure that yields the maximim results for all. In such case, that person will have one Coticule that works best for him. But that's only true for him personally, and the record usually shows that 6 months later, such a person has another favorite Coticule, or even another favorite hone. And 6 months thereafter, yet another. Which is of course an exciting journey of its own.

Kind regards,
Bart.