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my 54 arived

Just had my 4th shave. this time i have gone wtg xtg atg which i normaly dont atg.absalutley no iritation at all. I would have to say this side of my 54 as produced a very smooth and nice edge. i'm going to try hybrid side next.
 
Just rehoned the le grelot razor with dilucot, on the hybrid side. I don't no what you thought, Bart. I think it as to be one of the nicest feeling coticules i honed on the razor sticks to the hone with slurry and water as if its a slight magnet i'm honing on. i managed a good hht of the strop and hone. I have to say not as good as original edge raspur echieved of the 10k.

Bart do you think the differance would be because the coticule is natural stone and the naniwa is manmade and has a little more tooth. I no you used 10k chorsa. was there a differance between that and the coticule. This is the third time i honed this razor and the results are the same good may be 3/4. I'm having to get closer with holding point thats the differance.

I will shave with this razor next time then i will no. I have had razors of diamond paste etc absalutly slice hairs silently . You'd think this is going to be the best shave ever. It was'nt the case, it was the roughist shave i could of had, which made me wonder.
 
My Chosera 10K puts a more aggressive edge on razors than any Coticule could. But the edges don't shave me closer, nor do they glide through the beard easier. The only difference is at skin level: The Chosera edge leaves a large number of bloody specks at my skin, mostly on the neck and the sideburn area. It are hair papillae sliced open, and it takes slightly over a day to heal.

I think your LeGrelot doesn't reach your preferred keenness on the Coticule to shave how you like it. We've addressed this issue in a thread a while ago: the LeGrelot has very hard steel, and a thick grind which causes a bit wider bevel than you'd found on a thinly ground full hollow razor. Both specifics (hard steel - wide bevel), make the razor respond slower to the hone. As explained in the other thread, each stroke over the hone affects the very edge in a negative way. It removes a bit of keenness. At the same time, the stroke also removes steel from the bevel faces, which adds keenness. Under normal circumstances, the stroke adds more keenness than it takes away, so your edge gains. But the finer it becomes, the more it becomes affected by the deteriorating stresses at the very tip, while the steel removal at the bevel faces remains the same. At a given point, the edge stops developing. Keenness has maxed out. On a razor with hard steel and wide bevels, that point will be earlier than on one with less hard steel and a narrower bevel. There are things you can do. I figure you won't like it, but Unicot will get you further, because it works on a narrower bevel. If you insist on Dilucot, it won't be that easy: you can use a bit more pressure. That is the success factor of the updated Dilucot procedure. A bit of pressured finishing in stropping direction can make a distinct difference as well.
Then we have the possibilities of pastes. And also other hones, but in my experience, you'll meet the same thresholds, even on the Chosera 10K. On a LeGrelot, I can't achieve the keenness I get on a small Unicot bevel, without doing something very similar with the Chosera.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
I look forward to hearing how you get on Gary, I finished my G Myers 60 strokes on the hybrid side after I found my Les latneuses left it very sharp but a little crispy, and must say it was smoother, not as smooth as my #10 although TBH I guess I should give it 60 on that and try it again, if you absolutely refuse to go unicot with your LeGrelot you just know the TI paste will bring it on nicely, I have been meaning to tell you how much I like the shaves off that you sent me, providing I am starting with an edge thats only just lacking it gives me a sharp as I want edge thats coticule smooth :thumbup:
 
cheers for info bart. the hht is good enought to shave of, I'm just trying to match that of how it was. Last night honed the razor on the normal side and the hht was good just like tonight but not the same level it was. last night i gave the razor just 10 laps on ti paste and it matched how it was before. I shaved half my face with the le grelot and it was perfect. So i no i can acheive that same level but with paste. I was determined to have a nother go. so far i have stropped , dry honed, let hone rest etc. Dry hone seemed to improve beleive it or not.

i will shave of coti next time round just to see if i am lacking the keeness i had before. At least i have a good bench mark.
 
tat2Ralfy said:
I look forward to hearing how you get on Gary, I finished my G Myers 60 strokes on the hybrid side after I found my Les latneuses left it very sharp but a little crispy, and must say it was smoother, not as smooth as my #10 although TBH I guess I should give it 60 on that and try it again, if you absolutely refuse to go unicot with your LeGrelot you just know the TI paste will bring it on nicely, I have been meaning to tell you how much I like the shaves off that you sent me, providing I am starting with an edge thats only just lacking it gives me a sharp as I want edge thats coticule smooth :thumbup:

you don't hear much about the ti paste on forums . Its always cr.ox or diamond sprays.

they actualy rate it as quite agreesive.i think it leaves a nice soft smooth edge. I can slice arm hairs above skin level after just 10 laps on my ti strop. Even if your razor is shave ready ti paste won't harm your edge if you don't do to many laps.

Ralfy you hone on milky slurry untill your razors maxes out, then go straight to your strop, i gaurantee you after 20 to 30 light passes on the ti paste and you will get a perfect smooth shave. I tryed it several times. I do 10 laps at a time , test hht once i pass then i stroped and shaved.
 
Bart said:
My Chosera 10K puts a more aggressive edge on razors than any Coticule could. But the edges don't shave me closer, nor do they glide through the beard easier. The only difference is at skin level: The Chosera edge leaves a large number of bloody specks at my skin, mostly on the neck and the sideburn area. It are hair papillae sliced open, and it takes slightly over a day to heal.

I think your LeGrelot doesn't reach your preferred keenness on the Coticule to shave how you like it. We've addressed this issue in a thread a while ago: the LeGrelot has very hard steel, and a thick grind which causes a bit wider bevel than you'd found on a thinly ground full hollow razor. Both specifics (hard steel - wide bevel), make the razor respond slower to the hone. As explained in the other thread, each stroke over the hone affects the very edge in a negative way. It removes a bit of keenness. At the same time, the stroke also removes steel from the bevel faces, which adds keenness. Under normal circumstances, the stroke adds more keenness than it takes away, so your edge gains. But the finer it becomes, the more it becomes affected by the deteriorating stresses at the very tip, while the steel removal at the bevel faces remains the same. At a given point, the edge stops developing. Keenness has maxed out. On a razor with hard steel and wide bevels, that point will be earlier than on one with less hard steel and a narrower bevel. There are things you can do. I figure you won't like it, but Unicot will get you further, because it works on a narrower bevel. If you insist on Dilucot, it won't be that easy: you can use a bit more pressure. That is the success factor of the updated Dilucot procedure. A bit of pressured finishing in stropping direction can make a distinct difference as well.
Then we have the possibilities of pastes. And also other hones, but in my experience, you'll meet the same thresholds, even on the Chosera 10K. On a LeGrelot, I can't achieve the keenness I get on a small Unicot bevel, without doing something very similar with the Chosera.

Kind regards,
Bart.


I've been tinkering around on this razor. after reading post. I thought i would give the razor some half strokes on water with a little pressure. Its crazy but it worked the hht of the hone is improved to just how i like it. bart would you follow up with some light strokes?
 
garyhaywood said:
I've been tinkering around on this razor. after reading post. I thought i would give the razor some half strokes on water with a little pressure. Its crazy but it worked the hht of the hone is improved to just how i like it. bart would you follow up with some light strokes?
Yes, but not with a lot. 20 or so.

Should the HHT revert back, you can always go back to using pressure.

:thumbup:
Bart.
 
I did just 10 hht is good enought for me so i will leave it at that. And i will test shave when i need a shave. Why would pressure work? its the oposite to what any would would even think of doing. I've been doing feather strokes with no joy.
 
I've been thinking lighter is better for like ages, Gary. But I found that's not always true. For finishing Unicot light is very important. But for honing hard steel/wide bevels, some pressure seems to be in order. (on Coticules)

Best regards,
Bart.
 
Bart i just shaved of my dovo with hybrid side. This side as given me a super smooth shave better than i got of the normal side. May be i honed a little better or this side is just smoother or like you said is easier to reach keeness.

What did you find? which was your favourite side?

I can onestly say i'd be surprised if escher improved this edge.

What i have been doing is going to the exxtremewith hht i think it can be a little mis leading at times. As i'm relating to hht. In the past i have had razors pass on the finest of hair with paste that is (dp). The shaves have not been the nicest.
 
garyhaywood said:
Bart i just shaved of my dovo with hybrid side. This side as given me a super smooth shave better than i got of the normal side. May be i honed a little better or this side is just smoother or like you said is easier to reach keeness.

What did you find? which was your favourite side?

I really don't have favorite Coticule edges. Today was a lovely sunny day in Belgium. This morning I took a Henkels finished on a "brisk" Coticule, enjoyed my shave, and the tingle on my face as I drove my bike to work. Right now, about 10 hours later the "fresh face" effect is starting to wear off.
Sometimes I shave late at night, and during wintertime I like a mellow edge best, because I don't like feeling of the flannel sheets against a rejuvenated face. I have the same with freshly cut toenails and flannel.:scared: :D
garyhaywood said:
I can onestly say i'd be surprised if escher improved this edge.

What i have been doing is going to the extremewith hht i think it can be a little mis leading at times. As i'm relating to hht. In the past i have had razors pass on the finest of hair with paste that is (dp). The shaves have not been the nicest.
The HHT is only meaningful when correlated to a certain hone. We can generalize a bit about Coticules and set markers for honing on them, but that we just can't compare HHT results from Coticules with other types of hones. The best example is a DMT-E (1200 grit). I can reach a HHT on that hone that easily matches what I can get of a Coticule (both edges unstropped). Yet, a shave of a DMT-E is rather uncomfortable.
What you should do is learn how the HHT behaves when your Escher peaks. Then you can use it to know when you're done on that hone. And then just enjoy the state of the art edges of your Coticules andthose of your Escher.

I am willing to talk about Coticules, Eschers, Nakayama's and Naniwa's all day, but this idea that they should compete for "the best edge" is a notion that completely escapes me. If you have a preference, you'll find yourself reaching for it more often. I have a favorite pen (I don't even know the brand), that I like writing with. Because it fits my hand well and has such a lovely glide on paper. An yet my best (actually my least worse) poem was written with a scratchy Bic, because that one was on my night table, when the words entered my mind.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
Afteer trying out the hybrid side of my burton hone no 54. the hybrid side was so good and did'nt realy want to try the other side, i thought i best give it a proper testing.the last five razors have been beautiful using dilucot, the hht as been unreal of the hone. the shaves have been also very smooth and nice a crisp. I actauly like the feel of the edge it is differant to hybrid.

i've been reading how nortons are easier for newbys rather than coticules. Which in a way i can see why.

i honed a razor on a 4k8k and the shave was actualy resisting. I messed around a little and still no improve mant. so i got my l4 out did the new dilucot in 15 mins. The edge was poping hairs and the shave was perfect for me. I actauly thought that was easier than having to flick between my 4k and 8k . i oviuosly did 'nt get somthing quite right. The thing about coticule i can just start with a light slurry and i'm finished, i can add paste if i want or need it.

I have tested quite a thew hones just latley. The out come as been more consistant with my coticules , i like the escher but that is just polisher and nice to have around. the l4 has made my coti nu 3 redundant. i have a naniwa 1k . i compared my fast est coti against the 1k naniwa. seriously the coti is faster than the 1k naniwa. i dulled the same razor i got the edge back on coti much quikker. the only razor i have struggled with is my puma inox. The razor shaved but the smoothness was my issue.
 
Thank you for the update Gary.

Coticules are really underrated for their abilities to do bevel work. Of course speed is a factor, but on the vast majority of the hones in the Vault, I can set a bevel just as easy as I can on my DMT-E. Granted, the edge needs to be assessed a bit differently to know when the bevel is ready to move on. On the DMT-E, I used to hone till it passes HHT-3. On a Coticule with slurry that will never happen, but that has everything to do with the presence of a sawtooth pattern after the DMT-E and the absence of it after the Coticule.

I second your experience that the edges of both sides of a Les Latneuses are different.

I'm sure you'll figure out the Puma one of these days :thumbup:

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
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