N°54 and n°52 - Les Latneuses

[Paul]

My comments should have cleared everything up if you read them carefully.

I've read your comments carefully... and they are crystal clear

 

[Smythe]

Gentlemen!... he has stated his opinion and weather we like it or not, he is entitled to it, I would not bother to ask for an apology…. It is not necessary.

There will be some folks, for whatever reason, are not as passionate about the art as most of us are. Remember, we are all different, and it’s this variety, as much as the wide verity of the Coticule, that what makes the world such a wonderful place to live, and the art so exciting for most of us.
Life is too short to worry about “one” person, devoid of any interest in the art, or one who prefers to stagnate and spew less-than-encouraging words at everyone who busily passes him by…

This forum is about sharpening steel so it will cut what it must, and leave tender skin untouched, that’s the art, the skill and the perfect stone that makes it happen.

Speaking of stones, two of the current lot in the Vault are way different from Coticule I have ever seen, the Wine-Red ones (n°41 and n°49) I believe Bart made mention about them.

Bart, are those Coticule or BBW? Anything more you can tell us about them?

Oh, and when will L#4, (aka n°54) be in the marketplace?:sneaky:

 

[kinematic]

Speaking of stones, two of the current lot in the Vault are way different from Coticule I have ever seen, the Wine-Red ones (n°41 and n°49) I believe Bart made mention about them.

Bart, are those Coticule or BBW? Anything more you can tell us about them?

Those are BBW's if I'm correct. I've heard mention of some BBW layers with a more reddish appearance, these are supposed to be quite fast. I think they're called Salmon Rouge. One of my natural combo's also has a reddish BBW layer and it's faster than my "regular" BBW.

 

[Bart]

I'll reply some, last statements first.

Those are BBW's if I'm correct. I've heard mention of some BBW layers with a more reddish appearance, these are supposed to be quite fast. I think they're called Salmon Rouge. One of my natural combo's also has a reddish BBW layer and it's faster than my "regular" BBW.

This is incorrect. There's a particularly reddish and atypical specimen of the La Petite Blanche layer present in the Vault. When Maurice Celis showed it to me at the quarry, I made the same wrong assumption. Namely that this had to be a "Salmon Rouge". But he denied. According to Maurice, "Salmon Rouge" and "Pierre de Lorraine" are the same thing, namely a particular BBW-layer, with pretty fast abrasive action. They currently don't access that layer, but he handed me the last specimen out of the display cabinet in the entrance hall. It's the one obvious BBW in the Vault. Not for sale, but worth testing. I also received a very small sample of "Les Petas", another celebrated Coticule layer, that they currently don't have direct access to. In time, I'll shoot a picture and post about it. The Reddish "La Petite Blanche" has much lighter slurry that any of you would imagine. I'll share results when I'm finished testing. It is for sale, at a bargain price actually, because the layer slopes to zero at the other side of the hone.

Gentlemen!... he has stated his opinion and weather we like it or not, he is entitled to it, I would not bother to ask for an apology…. It is not necessary.

Very right, my friend. Apologies are an act of kindness, just like a cuddle or a present. These things loose all meaning when not freely given.

Oh, and when will L#4, (aka n°54) be in the marketplace?:sneaky:

I had a change of heart, and told my pall Gary, who was looking for a large rectangular Coticule, to watch out for when n°54 became available. The hones were published in the Vault, for almost an entire day before I posted at the Cafeteria. Gary grabbed it. I practically told the same to Paul concerning n°52, and even agreed to reserve it for him because he had way more important matters at hand than claiming Coticules. But Victorious was alert enough to make a reservation before I posted about the addition to the Vault, and I will honor his request, just as I would honor it for every member. Yet I do hope that running this website still entitles me to do a friend a favor...

We're all adults here and if Bart (or anyone else) can't handle it, it says more about him than it does about me. I will also encounter people during my life who will state an opinion I may feel is insulting to me. I'm not going to cry about it, that's life. Deal with it.

Your opinion that you're not interested in Coticules with qualification label, is yours to make, although I don't see your point for making it. If you're not interested, than just don't buy. But you tried to reveal this addition to Ardennes' line of products as a mere marketing ploy. "Misleading" was the literal word you used. Now, "marketing ploy" and "misleading", may be perfectly acceptable for you and the culture you live in, but I consider it not acceptable. Because it depends on deception. Having a euphemism for it doesn't make it less despicable. You suggested that there is no extra value in a Coticule with qualifications label, that it's a deception. And that remains an insult. Try it again, and you'll find out about my hospitality. That you frequent other Internet sites I've never heard about, but where - if I understand you correctly - people can't inhibit verbal incontinence, is something I couldn't care less about. Your objections, intermixed with your ill-mannered behavior, are noted here, as are all other replies. Everyone is free to form his own opinion out of that.

boxing it up, numbering it, adding a description and selling it as a collectors edition

Actually you can't stick a label to a double sided Coticule. So the label in the lid of a box seems logical.
The boxes will likely be the normal Ardennes Coticule boxes. But what will prevent those who really fancy a quick profit to copy a label and glue it in the lid? With numbered labels and all numbers listed online with a picture attached, people can crosscheck claims made, when one occasionally turns up at e.g. Ebay.
The series won't be all that collectible as such, because there will be only one of each number. But obviously the descriptions will be helpful to those who already are into collecting Coticules and would like to gather one of each layer.

Bart.

 

[kinematic]

"Misleading" was the literal word you used.

I never used the word misleading. You might want to reread my posts.

Now, "marketing ploy" and "misleading", may be perfectly acceptable for you and the culture you live in, but I consider it not acceptable. Because it depends on deception.

A marketing ploy isn't always based on deception.

And I will say it once again because it seems some of you have trouble actually reading what I posted. To me it doesn't have any extra value. I never said it doesn't have any extra value period. If someone thinks it's worth the extra money go ahead and buy it. I won't loose any sleep over it.

 

[Bart]

Saying they are both perfect coticules is also misleading because that's a very subjective statement.

 

[jonnyangel]

An extra cost for expertise needed to test and classify a stone makes total sense.

 

[Smythe]

Oh, and when will L#4, (aka n°54) be in the marketplace?:sneaky:

I had a chance of heart, and told my pall Gary, who was looking for a large rectangular Coticule, to watch out for when n°54 became available. The hones were published in the Vault, for almost an entire day before I posted at the Cafeteria. Gary grabbed it. I practically told the same to Paul concerning n°52, and even agreed to reserve it for him because he had way more important matters at hand than claiming Coticules. But Victorious was alert enough to make a reservation before I posted about the addition to the Vault, and I will honor his request, just as I would honor it for every member. Yet I do hope that running this website still entitles me to do a friend a favor... Bart.

The stone is gone? WOW that was fast, but I really didn't expect it to last long in the marketplace... with all those monitors and extra computers tasked to monitor the Vault and the Marketplace, Victorious beat me to it?... congrats:thumbup:

Is that one the #00001 ?

Let me be the first to say if he ever decides to sell it please drop me an email.

 

[garyhaywood]

Bart which side did you prefer. did you achieve the same keeness on both sides. with respect hybrid side was easier to acheive keeness due to being a little slower.

 

[Bart]

If I have to arrange your Coticules form crisp to smooth, I'd say: n°3 and n°54 closely together, next hybrid side of n°54, and finally n°21.
I generally prefer the edges that leave a freshness to my skin over those that do not affect my skin at all. The shaves are equally close but the former leaves that lovely feeling, that makes me remember for a few hours that I had a shave. The latter makes me forget I've shaved at all. It's probably the better edge for people with very sensitive skin.
As explained in this thread, it's also influenced by razor grind and steel properties how smooth the edge will be on a given Coticule, with the given sharpening method.
What I absolutely love about these Les Latneuses is how they feel and feedback while honing. You 'll know what I mean when you feel it.

Best regards,
Bart.

 

[Victorious]

Yet I do hope that running this website still entitles me to do a friend a favor...

Yes, of course. I had no idea that you had already reserved number 52 for someone. I'd be happy to relinquish my reservation to Paul, who technically had it before me anyway.

 

[Bart]

Yet I do hope that running this website still entitles me to do a friend a favor...

Yes, of course. I had no idea that you had already reserved number 52 for someone. I'd be happy to relinquish my reservation to Paul, who technically had it before me anyway.

Not necessary.
The rules are that members can make a reservation as soon as test results are published at the Vault.
You were the first to make that public reservation, and I honor that. There were probably plenty of people who had interest in purchasing that hone, but you were the first to make an announcement. That's all that matters to me and Paul perfectly understands.
By the way: You still have opportunity to recall your buyer's intent, by the time I post pricing info.

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[Victorious]

By the way: You still have opportunity to recall your buyer's intent, by the time I post pricing info.

I'm in a bit of a dilemma. When I first made the reservation, I thought that the 52 stone would be priced at the regular cost of a 50x150 standard coticule. Now I know that it will most likely be more expensive, but I have no idea how much more expensive. I know you don't have perfect information on the subject, as the ultimate decision in pricing is up to Ardennes, but do you think 52 will be priced higher than 100 euros? I know that might seem like a silly question, but I just want to try to get some clarity on the subject.

 

[Bart]

It's not me that decides on Ardennes' prices, but I can make an educated guess.

Technically, n°52 could be a bout, because there's that small triangle missing at one corner. Or is could be a "standard" 150X50, standard grade because of the missing triangle.
So, it's a selected bout, or a standard hone. Guess what? A select bout size 9 costs 73 EUR, a "standard" hone 150X50 costs 74 EUR.
I think that the hones from the Burton Series will be about 25% more expensive (that includes a box you may not need or want, but costs about 10€ if you get it with another one). So we're looking at 92 EUR. If you realize that in case of this "Les Latneuses", you get 10mm of Coticule and 5mm of hybrid Coticule, I consider whoever gets it a "Lucky Bastard" (with capitals and with respect, of course).

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[tat2Ralfy]

"Lucky Bastard"

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

 

[Paul]

Victorious,

Thank you for the generous offer to forego your reservation. However, if I weren't friends with Bart, I wouldn't even know about that stone being published in the vault because I was dealing with a family crisis (which is appearing to be turning out exceptionally well, BTW :w00t: ). If you don't want it due to price, I'd be happy to purchase the stone in your stead. However, I don't have any claims to anything on this site except a friendship with some great guys.

I guess we can consider this a backup reservation of nº 52. But, don't feel any obligation to not buy on my account

Cheers,

 

[ZethLent]

Lucky Bastard indeed.

But Bart, will you still be posting about No 51, 53, and 55 (for sale I mean)? I am not sure if I missed that info.

Thanks.

 

[Bart]

Hi Seth,

I haven't completed testing these.

Kind regards,
Bart

 

[ZethLent]

Hi Seth,

I haven't completed testing these.

Kind regards,
Bart

That is what I thought. Thanks.

 

[jonnyangel]

Bart, are the Les Latneuses stones becoming rare?