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- Thread starter shakin_jake
- Start Date
shakin_jake
Member
Okay Bart, you are right...I moved the slurry stone down the length of the coticle once...after wetting the coticule (La Verte) first...I did 50 laps (X-Strokes) then spritzed a little bit of water on top of the stone (very little, I have a mini spray bottle I keep filled with water for hitting my cotis with), did 50 more, kept repeating till I did 200 laps total then I loaded the surface with water to see if it would under cut, and sure enough, it did
Trying to do (in the future) what you advised me to do earlier...i will try doing this minimally, ie-with fewer strokes, but I was quiote happy to see that I could use so very little slurry with La Verte and get my razor to under cut straight water. that said, when I shave next, I'll repeat this process but I will only lap 15 strokes, then flood the top of the stone to see if it under cuts straight water
BTW, I didn't realize it was you that suggested doing 300 laps daily with straight water for a week straight with one razor. that's a great idea and an easy way to get to know both your hone and your razor, but with La Verte, this process must be modified with one stroke of the slurry stone...but now since I've done the 300 lap daily X 7 with my Les Lat coti, I wont need to do the same with La Verte...and hopefully, I'll be able to lap with La Verte only 10-15 times like you mentioned when I was lappping with my Les Lat...so I will be sure to keep you updated how I progress with La Verte...doing the one stroke with slurry
@ Emmanuel- So you want to know where HHT fits in my honing paradigm?...isn't the HHT considered a parlor trick?j/k=
Admittedly, I haven't used HHT, at all, in fact, I don't do the thumb pad nor the thumb nail probing tests niether, but I religiously do the arm hair shave test when correcting the bevel of any razor, to the extent that I check not only that each side of the blade shaves arm hair, but I also make certain each side shaves at 3 spots...heel, toe and in between in the center, both sides. Then and only then do I consider the bevel corrected. Now I'm not trying to defend not doing the HHT but you asked for referrence and I responded. I did however do an HHT after lapping with La Verte Wednesday afternoon...this last time, but I only performed the HHT *after* stropping and saw HHT-3. BTW, I stropped 60 linen, 100 leather, after doing the aforementioned X strokes on my La Verte. I probably should do HHT more often. In your opinion, should I do HHT only after stropping?
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
Trying to do (in the future) what you advised me to do earlier...i will try doing this minimally, ie-with fewer strokes, but I was quiote happy to see that I could use so very little slurry with La Verte and get my razor to under cut straight water. that said, when I shave next, I'll repeat this process but I will only lap 15 strokes, then flood the top of the stone to see if it under cuts straight water
BTW, I didn't realize it was you that suggested doing 300 laps daily with straight water for a week straight with one razor. that's a great idea and an easy way to get to know both your hone and your razor, but with La Verte, this process must be modified with one stroke of the slurry stone...but now since I've done the 300 lap daily X 7 with my Les Lat coti, I wont need to do the same with La Verte...and hopefully, I'll be able to lap with La Verte only 10-15 times like you mentioned when I was lappping with my Les Lat...so I will be sure to keep you updated how I progress with La Verte...doing the one stroke with slurry
@ Emmanuel- So you want to know where HHT fits in my honing paradigm?...isn't the HHT considered a parlor trick?j/k=
Admittedly, I haven't used HHT, at all, in fact, I don't do the thumb pad nor the thumb nail probing tests niether, but I religiously do the arm hair shave test when correcting the bevel of any razor, to the extent that I check not only that each side of the blade shaves arm hair, but I also make certain each side shaves at 3 spots...heel, toe and in between in the center, both sides. Then and only then do I consider the bevel corrected. Now I'm not trying to defend not doing the HHT but you asked for referrence and I responded. I did however do an HHT after lapping with La Verte Wednesday afternoon...this last time, but I only performed the HHT *after* stropping and saw HHT-3. BTW, I stropped 60 linen, 100 leather, after doing the aforementioned X strokes on my La Verte. I probably should do HHT more often. In your opinion, should I do HHT only after stropping?Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
shakin_jake
Member
I was up earlier Today...I shaved around 10:30 AM. Afterwards I did 15 laps on wet La Verte w/one stroke of the slurry stone. Then I loaded the top of the stone with water and was totaly amazed that the razor would under cut the water well. I did an additional 50 + laps on straight water and called it done, dried the razor after rinsing it well under hot running water then did 100 laps linen, 100 laps on leather then took a strand of hair to do an HHT. Wound up with another HHT3. I'm really liking this slice of La Verte...the way it sharpens my razor, the razor I'm shaving with day in and day out lately...my Case Red Imp...and I'm liking the shave I get, the way my face feels after shaving and the ease at which this coti honed razor cuts beard hair
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
shakin_jake
Member
Great it is but, it can be even greter, right?...so how do I go from HHT 3 to HHT 4 after stropping, or should I ask, what do I have to do differently with my razor and hone to go from 3 to 4 (HHT)?
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
Bart
Well-Known Member
If the shaves are great, I wouldn't worry too much about absolute HHT-readings. The idea behind the HHT is that you eventually learn to predict how well the razor will shave form doing the test. That's why it's important to use the same hair source and perform the test in a standardized manner. Personally I always perform the HHT straight of the hone, before any stropping (I do make sure that the blade is wiped dry very well). I know I need HHT-3 on one of the medium to thicker hairs from the sampling strand I keep for this purpose.
I used to check after stropping also, to assure myself of good stropping practice. A very clear improvement must be observed after stropping, I ended up with HHT-4. HHT-5, I can only reach with special techniques, but I find those edges to sharp for comfortable and relaxed shaving, so I don't bother.
Nowadays I hardly ever perform the HHT after stropping, since I'm confident about my stropping and know what the outcome will be.
I however still -and probably always will- rely on the HTT to know if a blade is ready on the hone.
What I recommend for you, is to take a freshly honed razor that you have confirmed to shave well during a test shave. Take that blade through the final steps of the Unicot method (from applying the tape and onwards). Check with the HHT afterwards, and take that reading as a future reference for your honing. It is extremely unlikely that anyone on this forum, including the most experienced guys, can improve the keenness of a well executed Unicot edge (al least not without pastes or other special techniques).
Once you know the kind of HHT Unicot can give you, you can start aiming to get the same after Dilucot. I usually have to settle for a bit less than that. My Unicot edges on average pass the HHT about half a point better than my Dilicot edges.
Kind regards,
Bart.
I used to check after stropping also, to assure myself of good stropping practice. A very clear improvement must be observed after stropping, I ended up with HHT-4. HHT-5, I can only reach with special techniques, but I find those edges to sharp for comfortable and relaxed shaving, so I don't bother.
Nowadays I hardly ever perform the HHT after stropping, since I'm confident about my stropping and know what the outcome will be.
I however still -and probably always will- rely on the HTT to know if a blade is ready on the hone.
What I recommend for you, is to take a freshly honed razor that you have confirmed to shave well during a test shave. Take that blade through the final steps of the Unicot method (from applying the tape and onwards). Check with the HHT afterwards, and take that reading as a future reference for your honing. It is extremely unlikely that anyone on this forum, including the most experienced guys, can improve the keenness of a well executed Unicot edge (al least not without pastes or other special techniques).
Once you know the kind of HHT Unicot can give you, you can start aiming to get the same after Dilucot. I usually have to settle for a bit less than that. My Unicot edges on average pass the HHT about half a point better than my Dilicot edges.
Kind regards,
Bart.
shakin_jake
Member
@ Staun- Hello Staun, Welcome
@Bart- Okay Bart, I get what you are saying about where I need to go to get HHT 4 +, (Unicot)...I've never performed a Unicot but, I have read about it...and I hear what you are saying, that it may very well be too sharp to shave with comfortably, something we don't want to forsake using our coticules. Now in regards to hair that I use for the HHT...I'm using strands from the hairs you see in this pic-
Scott (life2short1971) gave me that strand of hairs...you'll have to ask him where these hairs came from as I forgot, although he did tell me where he got them at one time, or, perhaps he'll mention where the hairs came from, if he sees this thread. FWIW, Scott lives an hour's drive north of me...I've been to his home several times, as he has graciously taken me under his wing, to help me learn the art of honing, and you must know what a treat that is for a n00b (like me) to have an experienced honer show him the ropes. Trust me, I struggled with honing at the start...but after a few sessions, Scott had me off and running= Really though, in the beginning, before Scott's help, my progress was slow, like ships off shovels
Now I did a HHT after my last touch up on the Case straight razor (pictured above), today, and only got HHT 1, but after stropping, I was rewarded with an HHT 3. Before using HHT to probe for any guage of where I'm at, and especially after stropping, I was using the quality of the shave to determine my honing/stropping abilities...yet I can now see why others use HHT to guage stature during honing, to differentiate the edge between honing/stropping yet I was quite dissapointed only achieving HHT 1 after honing, or is HHT 1 dirigueur more often than not? That said, I read where you said not to be concerned with absolute HHT readings, as my shaves have been very good, really, no complaints, the edges I have been getting...but it's taken me a while to get to this point, and again, I'd like to publicly thank Scott for all of his help, helping me get to where I'm at with my honing:thumbup: And of course I'd like to thank you too Bart, and Emmanuel and all of the others here that have taken an interest in helping me along the way. Many thanks Gentlemen:thumbup:
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
@Bart- Okay Bart, I get what you are saying about where I need to go to get HHT 4 +, (Unicot)...I've never performed a Unicot but, I have read about it...and I hear what you are saying, that it may very well be too sharp to shave with comfortably, something we don't want to forsake using our coticules. Now in regards to hair that I use for the HHT...I'm using strands from the hairs you see in this pic-
Scott (life2short1971) gave me that strand of hairs...you'll have to ask him where these hairs came from as I forgot, although he did tell me where he got them at one time, or, perhaps he'll mention where the hairs came from, if he sees this thread. FWIW, Scott lives an hour's drive north of me...I've been to his home several times, as he has graciously taken me under his wing, to help me learn the art of honing, and you must know what a treat that is for a n00b (like me) to have an experienced honer show him the ropes. Trust me, I struggled with honing at the start...but after a few sessions, Scott had me off and running=
Really though, in the beginning, before Scott's help, my progress was slow, like ships off shovelsNow I did a HHT after my last touch up on the Case straight razor (pictured above), today, and only got HHT 1, but after stropping, I was rewarded with an HHT 3. Before using HHT to probe for any guage of where I'm at, and especially after stropping, I was using the quality of the shave to determine my honing/stropping abilities...yet I can now see why others use HHT to guage stature during honing, to differentiate the edge between honing/stropping yet I was quite dissapointed only achieving HHT 1 after honing, or is HHT 1 dirigueur more often than not? That said, I read where you said not to be concerned with absolute HHT readings, as my shaves have been very good, really, no complaints, the edges I have been getting...but it's taken me a while to get to this point, and again, I'd like to publicly thank Scott for all of his help, helping me get to where I'm at with my honing:thumbup: And of course I'd like to thank you too Bart, and Emmanuel and all of the others here that have taken an interest in helping me along the way. Many thanks Gentlemen:thumbup:
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
shakin_jake
Member
Okay Bart, I'm pretty stoked
: I just did unicot on a sheffield extra hollow ground razor of mine and bumped up the HHT 1 point on each end so, instead of the twos I've been getting after hone touch up, I gotta a solid HHT 3, and if that wasn't an eye opener, after stropping, I saw an immediate HHT 4. I'll shave with it later this afternoon and report back. needless to say, I can't wait:sleep:
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
: I just did unicot on a sheffield extra hollow ground razor of mine and bumped up the HHT 1 point on each end so, instead of the twos I've been getting after hone touch up, I gotta a solid HHT 3, and if that wasn't an eye opener, after stropping, I saw an immediate HHT 4. I'll shave with it later this afternoon and report back. needless to say, I can't wait:sleep: Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
garyhaywood
Well-Known Member
Bart have you ever failed the hht of unicot? or not been as good as usaul? If so do you some times try two layers of tape. I have had this happen. i have wonderd if i have not used enougn slurry , i don't use to much as i only use a mist. when i do get unicot wrigt the hht is allways as you say agood half to even one point higher, the shaves are near perfect or somtimes i find they can be a tadge crisp.
gary
gary
Bart
Well-Known Member
garyhaywood said:
Gary, I don't recall ever having not passed a clear HHT-3 after Unicot. The tape I use is 0.15 mm thick.
As far as edge crispiness is concerned, I couldn't say. I find that how my skin responds to an edge can vary from shave to shave. The first shave with a particular edge can leave my skin completely unaffected. 2 days later, same edge, my skin can feel peeled. And another 2 days after, it could be like the first shave again. Or yet another sensation.
I am convinced that effects of shaving are very much defined by coincidental influences during the shave such as the time of day, the weather, or the time of year, even male hormonal cycles (why not?), how relaxed the shaver, even the expectations we might have for the used equipment.
That makes it extremely difficult to assess the quality of an edge without blind testing and the application of statistics.
I'm still not sure if it was a wise (or even meaningful) move to start with adding the "edge feel" indicators (brisk, engaging and mallow).
They remain impressions more than observations.
Kind regards,
Bart.
garyhaywood
Well-Known Member
i no what your saying, and i have experianced a great shave one day, the next day with same razor, its like it felt differant again. i've had great shaves of both methods. i just found for some reason i have have not got the hht that i no i could. i must of missed somthing. i've not got lots of experiance with unicot. As i only ever used it a handful of times. when the going gets tough with dilucot. i do consider using it, just so i still get the shave direct from coticule.
cheers gary
cheers gary
shakin_jake
Member
Bart said::thumbup: Great!
I would expect you'll feel a difference during your test shave.
Now the challenging, yet occasionally frustrating, journey has begun to match those results when doing Dilucot.
Isn't it fun?
Bart.
~~~Got a great shave from that Unicot edge...not sure where to go from here. In other words, do I start honing Unicot or stick with Dulicot?...for sure, that's a rhetorical question...but I am glad that Emmanuel asked me about my HHT results, as mentioned, I wasn't using HHT to guage progress, but now that I have used it, I can see the wisdom in using that probing test, which ultimately led me to trying Unicot
I have to add why I never attempted Unicot- Sometime ago, I think the first time I honed on a newly acquired Norton 1 K, used to correct a heavily chipped bevel, I taped the spine of that razor not wanting any undue spine wear, and the taped saved the spine but what happened negatively was the deterioration of the tape, all over the hone...bits of black plastic tape...it was a mess, so I think that was what put me off from trying Unicot with any of my cotis... but now I see that the higher grit rating cotis, wont overly abrade the black electrician tape, so again, now that I have honed a Unicot and shaved with it, getting impressive results...I'm really standing here in the fork of the proverbial coti road, wondering if I should continue on Unicot Lane or roll up Dilicot boulevard
Best,
Jake
Reddick Fla.
tat2Ralfy
Well-Known Member
Congratulations Jake
What I would do from now on, is continue honing Dilucot, and if the results are not what you want, tape the spine and finish as Unicot, I know for a fact that over time you will gradually use the Unicot finish less and less :thumbup:
Welcome aboard the good ship, and most importantly enjoy the journey
Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)
What I would do from now on, is continue honing Dilucot, and if the results are not what you want, tape the spine and finish as Unicot, I know for a fact that over time you will gradually use the Unicot finish less and less :thumbup:
Welcome aboard the good ship, and most importantly enjoy the journey
Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)
Snuff
Well-Known Member
Bart said:
Since I got the La Dressante from you I have had good results with Unicot, I have since moved on to Dilucot, not as easy as unicot but with some patience I got good results. Lately I've started testing all of my razors and giving a score between 1 and 10 for the shaves I get during a 10 day period. You're right, some days I have a score of 4 and the same razor might give me a 8 the following day. If I have other things on my mind I definitely get a less good shave. Lesson learned: don't give up to soon on a razor. Second lesson: there are a lot of razors out there that shave extremely well and don't cost a lot of money. I'm glad I started out with coticules from the start. Another great help was the hair samples I got from Gary. Greets Ron