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Hello Jake,
My bad. I mixed up my 127 strop exactly like yours with the one hanging next to it. Yours is horsehide shell and a very nice linen component. And..I used exactly the same method to make it nice again. I did a light scrub on the linen and was good to stay.
I am sorry for the confusion..brain fart!
~Respectfully
~Richard
 
Is this the type you have? Pretty cheap for a Shell horse strop and might be worth a purchase.

I have a 'Scorcher' Shell horse strop, has red leather on one side and black on the other. The Black side has a greater draw than the red. I don't have a linen one yet (maybe I should just get a separate linen one)
 
Hello Rhys,
If that #127 Thisis as good as a vintage one I would be pleased to recommend it. I think that is what Jake purchased. A Kanayama at 4 times the price is just a nicely tanned piece of leather also.

A linen/canvas/silk/denim component is a, like it or not, toss up. It does clean the blade and set the edge prior to final stropping on the leather. Some swear the linen gives a HHT one better than off the hone. I cannot say but am playing with a magnifying glass, Gold Dollar razors, and various linen components I have rescued and various white dressings. Since I do not have any doubles of the same linen, those enquiries will be for my edification only. It is a given and for sure the weave, materials, and dressing do make a difference in quality.

If you search this site, I believe some of the members have some very nice linen available. Just put a want to buy...WTB in the marketplace.
Since I am a newby, relatively, my comments may be taken with a bit of neetsfoot oil.
~Richard
 
shakin_jake said:
Hey Richard!...my #127 Chicago strop is a newrer style and only has one leather component and one linen component, and that said, I'm not sure (can't tell as I don't know how) which type of animal the leather is tanned from. All I know is that it was faster than all get out new out of the box and I had to slow it up some to get some draw out of it

@ Emmanuel- I lapped my Les Lat coti a few hours ago like you advised, using another coti rubbed together under running water, but first I had the mind to pencil grid both cotis (the other was my LPB bout)...well, it worked a charm. it took several minutes of constant lapping to remove all traces of pencil marks but IMO, this is agood idea for maint. lapping vs. using a DMT. For one thing, by lapping two cotis together, you are getting the job done with two stones instaed of one at a time...doing double duty. Win-Win!...I even pencil gridded my BBW and took it for a ride against my Les Lat. Beautiful job!

Okay, switching gears...Thursday's shave I cheated...I used the Genco instead of the Chas Smith razor I've been using for my 7 day challenge. Why? Well, I got my beard prepped and the Genco was already stropped and I thought, what the heck?...the blade on the Genco is only 9/16", and I'm guessing worn down from 5/8"...it does look to be a very old razor and has been used... yet it delivered a nice shave. I liked the stiffness I felt from this narrow blade and I got a good shave to boot

I think I shaved about 8 PM and I honed it after midnight, and I didn't stop at 300 laps. For wahtever reason, it just felt right to keep going with it until I felt it was ready. It may very well have been done in under 300 laps but I kept going. Friday will be a new shave...must resist using the Genco again, so as to complete using the other razor for 7 days/300 laps=:)


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
Click to expand...

The main idea concerning the lapping between two coticules is not only the flattening but is the refreshing of the coticule garnets before every honing on clear water my friend Jake.
Best regards
Emmanuel
 
Toff said:
Hello Jake,
My bad. I mixed up my 127 strop exactly like yours with the one hanging next to it. Yours is horsehide shell and a very nice linen component. And..I used exactly the same method to make it nice again. I did a light scrub on the linen and was good to stay.
I am sorry for the confusion..brain fart!
~Respectfully
~Richard
Click to expand...


~~~Okay Richard, understood. the other strop[ in the photo... I bought new from The Well Shaved Gentleman (Tony Miller). it's his starter strop. Horsehide with linen on the other side. it's my favorite strop. I have three strops currently...those two and a Walkin' Horse strop that uses an English Bridle leather and a heavy fabric on the other side, w/both components being 3" wide. I prefer the 2.5" width of the TM Strop and the Chicago Strop


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
 
Rhys said:
Is this the type you have? Pretty cheap for a Shell horse strop and might be worth a purchase.

I have a 'Scorcher' Shell horse strop, has red leather on one side and black on the other. The Black side has a greater draw than the red. I don't have a linen one yet (maybe I should just get a separate linen one)
Click to expand...



~~~That looks like the one I have but I bought mine from Amazon...this one-

http://www.amazon.com/Fromm-300003-Razor-Strop-23/dp/B001DYM5TG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315632024&sr=8-1

I wrote a review for Amazon here-

http://www.amazon.com/Fromm-300003-Razor-Strop-23/product-reviews/B001DYM5TG/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#R3TBHHW7WZSEPQ



Rhys said:
I don't have a linen one yet (maybe I should just get a separate linen one)
Click to expand...



~~~All 3 of my strops came with linen and I use the linen component each time I strop, now I think I read here that some of the members that hone with only BBW have found it best not to strop on linen...stropping only on leather. perhaps someone that hones on BBW only will mention what they use, but my understanding of why linen is used and when, my understanding is by stropping on linen before leather, the linen will clean the edge of crud like dried soap and other detritus the blade picks up, so you don't get that on your leather component. I'm going to assume since you strop without linen before leather, you may have to clean your leather more often. This is just a guess on my part. i've also heard it said that stropping on linen before leather allows the linen to heat the metal blade before it hits the leather, from the friction that is created...but I would imagine you can take you palm and stroke well up and down your leather strop before using to get the leather warm. I do this myself on occasion

So, if you think your leather needs cleaning, go for it, then rub your hand on the strop before stropping to get it warm, if you want. IMO and experience, you need to be careful how you clean the leather portion of a strop as too much soap and water will dry the leather out. not good, be careful! I'll let others advise you how to clean the leather portion of a strop...I'm not sure what is best but again, it's my understanding that micro fragments of the blade will be taken off by the linen component rather than these pieces of steel ending up in the leather (another reason to strop on linen before leather). Others may have better and different ideas


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
 
Emmanuel said:
shakin_jake said:
Hey Richard!...my #127 Chicago strop is a newrer style and only has one leather component and one linen component, and that said, I'm not sure (can't tell as I don't know how) which type of animal the leather is tanned from. All I know is that it was faster than all get out new out of the box and I had to slow it up some to get some draw out of it

@ Emmanuel- I lapped my Les Lat coti a few hours ago like you advised, using another coti rubbed together under running water, but first I had the mind to pencil grid both cotis (the other was my LPB bout)...well, it worked a charm. it took several minutes of constant lapping to remove all traces of pencil marks but IMO, this is agood idea for maint. lapping vs. using a DMT. For one thing, by lapping two cotis together, you are getting the job done with two stones instaed of one at a time...doing double duty. Win-Win!...I even pencil gridded my BBW and took it for a ride against my Les Lat. Beautiful job!

Okay, switching gears...Thursday's shave I cheated...I used the Genco instead of the Chas Smith razor I've been using for my 7 day challenge. Why? Well, I got my beard prepped and the Genco was already stropped and I thought, what the heck?...the blade on the Genco is only 9/16", and I'm guessing worn down from 5/8"...it does look to be a very old razor and has been used... yet it delivered a nice shave. I liked the stiffness I felt from this narrow blade and I got a good shave to boot

I think I shaved about 8 PM and I honed it after midnight, and I didn't stop at 300 laps. For wahtever reason, it just felt right to keep going with it until I felt it was ready. It may very well have been done in under 300 laps but I kept going. Friday will be a new shave...must resist using the Genco again, so as to complete using the other razor for 7 days/300 laps=:)


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
Click to expand...

The main idea concerning the lapping between two coticules is not only the flattening but is the refreshing of the coticule garnets before every honing on clear water my friend Jake.
Best regards
Emmanuel
Click to expand...


~~~I didn't think of that Emmanuel...thank you so much for pointing that out. I'll make sure I refreshen my coti this way and for this reason before using each time


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
 
Okay, last night I shaved with the Chas Smith Razor...the shave went well if not uneventful. I'm getting used to the edge I can put on it and am quite satisfied with the edge and the quality of the shave itself, which employs factors other than how I hone and what I use to hone with. I shaved about 8 PM and honed around midnight, when i had more time to hone. And, I did 300 laps on the coti. Tomorrow, before I hone, I will refreshen the garnets as Emmanuel pointed out


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
 
shakin_jake said:
Rhys said:
Is this the type you have? Pretty cheap for a Shell horse strop and might be worth a purchase.

I have a 'Scorcher' Shell horse strop, has red leather on one side and black on the other. The Black side has a greater draw than the red. I don't have a linen one yet (maybe I should just get a separate linen one)
Click to expand...



~~~That looks like the one I have but I bought mine from Amazon...this one-

http://www.amazon.com/Fromm-300003-Razor-Strop-23/dp/B001DYM5TG/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315632024&sr=8-1

I wrote a review for Amazon here-

http://www.amazon.com/Fromm-300003-Razor-Strop-23/product-reviews/B001DYM5TG/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#R3TBHHW7WZSEPQ



Rhys said:
I don't have a linen one yet (maybe I should just get a separate linen one)
Click to expand...



~~~All 3 of my strops came with linen and I use the linen component each time I strop, now I think I read here that some of the members that hone with only BBW have found it best not to strop on linen...stropping only on leather. perhaps someone that hones on BBW only will mention what they use, but my understanding of why linen is used and when, my understanding is by stropping on linen before leather, the linen will clean the edge of crud like dried soap and other detritus the blade picks up, so you don't get that on your leather component. I'm going to assume since you strop without linen before leather, you may have to clean your leather more often. This is just a guess on my part. i've also heard it said that stropping on linen before leather allows the linen to heat the metal blade before it hits the leather, from the friction that is created...but I would imagine you can take you palm and stroke well up and down your leather strop before using to get the leather warm. I do this myself on occasion

So, if you think your leather needs cleaning, go for it, then rub your hand on the strop before stropping to get it warm, if you want. IMO and experience, you need to be careful how you clean the leather portion of a strop as too much soap and water will dry the leather out. not good, be careful! I'll let others advise you how to clean the leather portion of a strop...I'm not sure what is best but again, it's my understanding that micro fragments of the blade will be taken off by the linen component rather than these pieces of steel ending up in the leather (another reason to strop on linen before leather). Others may have better and different ideas


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
Click to expand...

Hmm, wondered what the linen side was for.
I don't think mine wants cleaning tbh as I always wipe my razor before stropping anyway. Just wondering if I should've thought about getting a linen on as many people use them.

I've also noticed when stropping using mine that I often get a red sticky deposit on the spine of my razor after stropping which I have to wipe off - I don't know if this is detrimental to my strop or not. I often rub my hands on it as well btw to add natural oils. Maybe it's just a build up of stuff mixed with dye coming off the strop? I don't seem to get this on the black side.
 
Rhys- You're right, that red sticky stuff is accumulated oils. No harm, no foul. When I first oil my strops, if I don't buff them with cotton well enough, my first couple of blades picks up this esact same residue


@Emmanuel- I lapped the coti w/another coti tonight before honing and you're right about wanting to do this...I could tell I had more raised garnets, as the razor made more of an audible sound which I could also feel. thanks agian so very much from me for mentioning for me to do this. I went through my 300 lap experiment again with the Chas Smith razor and at the beginning of each set of 100 X Strokes, I lapped the coti to raise garnets. now the real test of what this accomplished will be during tomorrow (or is it later today's?=:) shave

I actually did something different Saturday in regards to shaving....a friend invited me out to breakfast (he bought) with he and about a dozen of his friends. Now this was early for me as I was out of the house by 8:30 AM Bill throws monthly RTE's (ride to eat) and this month's event was actually a breakfast as they were metting at 9:30. Of course I was late as I misjudged the distance I had to ride to get there (Webster Fla. flea market). FWIW, most of these guys ride sport touring bikes and they actually ride far and wide...Bill told me has ridden (documented) 30 K miles this year already, and he's unemployed, so the miles aren't commuting miles. And FWIW, he told me he needs to find a job as his funds are running low. here's what I showed up on
5458202756_0accccda00_z.jpg

4847257512_b762767d5c_z.jpg

I'm the odd man out riding an enduro (amongst that crowd), a bike I bought 3rd hand July 2010. sorry, but I digress. anyways, so I showered and shaved before leaving the house but I chose to use this razor
5682995060_0652c64016_z.jpg

a 1912 Gem Jr. single edge razor, whcih shaves me well. I used it instead of my 7 day challenge straight razor because I was running out of time and I can get the job done in about half the amount of time with this SE Razor

I still shaved with my Chas Smith straight during what I would call Saturday but in reality is early Sunday morning...I just shaved about an hour ago before writing this, and the shave went well. A day w/o a straioght razor shave is like a day w/o sunshine=:)


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
 
Beautiful :thumbup: both the bike and razor are lovely things to see, thank you so much for sharing :love:

Here is my own, a gift from my then Fiancé Alicia, I then sold my sadly missed Shovel head Harley, as it was no longer practical for the 2 of us.

34DB5876-orig.jpg


best regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
Dr. Ralfson...I love Harleys, and the Springer front end is so lovely. Dad bought an FLH (1975) (the AMF years) when I brought my 1st used motorcycle home that year, a Yammie 2t enduro. So long as I kept his dresser clean, he let me ride it. I truly was 'King of the Road' when I rode that bike. I also have a big soft spot in my heart for type 1 sedans...yours looks to be either a 66' or a 67'. I had four back in the 70's...all were 6 volts with the newest being the 66' my Father gave to me for my high school graduation in 74'. it was originally Mom's car new in 66' so it was a hand me down for me but oh the memories, like hiding drugs behind the headlight shell crossing the border into Canada (we lived in Detroit then=:) Let's see...I remember my last one was a 65' type 1 sedan, bahama Blue like Mom's car, then there was a 64' sedan with a factory sunroof. paid $150 for it used mid to late 70's..was a rust bucket though, then there was also a 64' window van, no reverse gear, gas hog it was but oh what a party vehicle and gas was uber cheap then, like 50 cents a gallon?

@ Disburden- Thanks for the offer to help me. I will be sure to take you and the list up on that when needed, whcih I'm sure they're will be times I'll find myself in the weeds here=:)

@ Emmanuel- I used the Chas Smith razor to shave with after raising the garnets before honing as you suggested. I could actully tell/feel an improvement in the edge...it was noticeably sharper and I'm not kidding. One of the telltale signs it was sharper, I got a closer shave, and for hours after shaving, my face felt cleaner like I had taken more beard hair off, which I did. I'm trying to figure out how to describe the sensation my skin felt...it felt tighter. Does that make sense? That's how it felt yet at the same time, with my face feeling tighter after the shave, this descriptor needs to include how noticeably closer the shave felt, so I'm going to lap my coti w/another coti everytime before I hone with it...like I just did before posting here. This last shave was Sunday afternoon about 3 PM yet I waited to hone the razor (when I found time) about 30 minutes ago...just after 2AM here. it was a bit of a honing/stroppiong fest as I also honed that Genco and stropped both right after honing

So I'm guessing I shaved every day (except one) with that Chas Smith razor for 7 days straight and honing 300 strokes each day afterwards. this has been a terrific experience and I felt I have learned a lot doing it...especioally getting the feedback from everyone that cared to comment on my technique. Now I'm starting to wonder if I should just hone some (how much is open to debate) after every shave. I realize Bart's recommendation is to touch up the edge of the razor after every 5th or 7th shave, 30 strokes, maybe more, depending on what the edge needs to get it where it needs to be, but since we have cotis and now I am developing my honing stroke into a proper stroke, I can't see how it could hurt to lap the razor after every shave...perhaps sort of like old school barbers did with their barber hones back in the day. That said, perhaps there are still professional barbers shaving customers using straight razors *AND* perhaps they use cotis for their touch up stone, and touch up their razor frequently. I don't know, I'm just throwing this out here for discussion purposes

i think it's safe to say...the rules are-, there are no rules, when it comes to how often and when a razor needs some laps...but after honing nightly after shaving nightly (these past 7 days)...I'm really liking the edges I'm getting honing after every shave, but perhaps saying I'm honing is a misnomer as I'm really only touching up the edge as I think honing implies a more thorough going over of the blade...but 300 X Strokes is thorough, is it not? Either way, it feels good, the edge that is, on my face


Best,


Shakin thorough Jake=:)
Reddick Fla.
 
Thanks Jake for another interesting update.

You and Emmanuel are definitely on to something. Most of us here, use our Coticules with some sorts of slurry rubbing as part of every honing job. That of course keeps the surface of our hones fresh. But if you do many light laps on water, a somewhat harder Coticule may very well lack the natural wear to refresh itself sufficiently. A bit of "reawakening the garnets" probably explains your experience after applying Emmanuel's tip. I frankly never considered this, because my Coticules get plenty of edge refreshing. I think we should investigate this a bit further and possible need to include the tip into the "Edge Maintenance" article.

As far as doing touch-ups before each shave is concerned, it's actually not a bad idea, but 300 laps is over the top once you have the perfect edge. I suggested this whole exercise, because I am convinced that many Coticule users, after they've gained some competence with Dilutions and other technique, still neglect to squeeze out that last bit of possible keenness during the finishing sequence. The exercise aims to make you realize how important it is to make the final laps with utmost precision, and how much there is to gain from that. But once you've learned that lesson, the next search should be of a more minimalistic nature. Do continue the daily honing, but try to find the minimum amount of laps to maintain the edge in peak performance. Depending on your hone, it won't be much more than 10, 15 tops. Edge decline is not a linear process, by the way. It's not as if you will loose "10 laps of sharpness" ever shave. If the first day equals 5 laps, 7 shaves will likely not equal 35 laps, and 70 shaves certainly won't equal 350 laps.

As far as barbers are concerned, based on what I've picked up from a retired barber, barbers didn't hone in the way we do. They would definitely send out the majority of razors we nowadays buy on Ebay, for a regrinding job by a specialized service. This regrinding could comprise additional hollowing of the blade, but more often than not, it was just what we nowadays call "bevel setting". What barbers did was merely edge maintenance. Once a razor became out of reach of their procedures for that, they would rely on the services of a professional (often traveling) sharpener who took care of blunt scissors and razors. If the sharpening guy couldn't do it, the blade was send back to the manufacturer who extended a regrinding service for that purpose. I have been told by a razor store owner in Antwerp, that Dovo still has such a service for fixing up old but otherwise precious razors.

Best regards,
Bart.
 
Yes Bart i agree completely with you.Me too as you know i follow dilution process ,so my hones are always fresh. But some times i hone an already dulled on glass razor on my Cretan hone without slurry and i found after 70-80 x strokes the razor shave easily my arm hair having a decent HHT2. Then i jump on coticule without slurry and coticule after a reasonable number of x strokes maybe 80 ( i never count my motions) boosts the keenness admirably to HHT 4 ,giving a closed and smooth shave.
I have previously reported on this method ( i don't really recall , maybe in your Cretan hones reference ) but i found ,when i use both hones Cretan and Coticule using them only with water ,after one ,two razors are less acting, that's why i refresh them before.
As i understood that Jake refreshes his razor on water only i proposed to refresh the surfaces before every honing. That you can do it of course using a slurry stone rinsing the hone, but between two coticules you keep flat surfaces avoiding the lapping on a DMT which it is less friendly.
However Bart you can try it my friend having both naturales.
Best regards
Emmanuel
 
I have to agree that when used exclusively with water only, over time the surface becomes sort of glazed, you can often see it starting when finishing on water, as light black marks that form on the stones surface, I dont think that using a slurry stone to refresh the surface does any harm at all.

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
Hi All!...I thought it was time for an update. I picked up a new coti...it's La Verte, a 150X40mm piece obtained through Jarrod in J-Actionville Fla. Although I'm only a couple hours ride from his shop, I bought it through his online store. Here's a pic of this stone I took with my Boker Red Injun
6151774577_04f836cea9_b.jpg

I wanted to mention a few things about this stone, especially in regards to honing on straight water with it, as that is what this thread has centered around mainly, me using a razor for 7 days straight, the same razor and lapping it 300 times on water only after every shave, and that stradegy worked well with my Les Latnueses coti but now that I am trying this out, lapping on water only but with the La Verte, I find that after I shave, I cannot...I repeat, I cannot sharpen any of my razors right off the bat, on straight water, on the La Verte. Trust me, I tried. First time around, I tried doing 200 laps (X-Strokes) water only. Guess what? No under cutting at all. Now Bart mentioned with a sharp razor that I should be able to do about 10 to 20 laps on straight water and get the edge back, after shaving. And this is with a razor that started out sharp to begin with, and I've done that successfully with my Les Lat, no problems, but in order for me to get my edge back with La Verte, I have to build a slurry and lap (X-Strokes) in the slurry first...then after a bit, the razor undercuts slurry, heavy slurry, mistly slurry, watery slurry, or straight water, but no matter what, I must first start out with slurry

I couldn't believe this, so I tried with another razor, one that I knew was sharp, a razor that I had done a progressive honing with, starting out doing sets of 30 half strokes back and forth each side on a slurried LPB bout, then when it cut arm hair, I worked down to sets of 15 half strokes to finish off, then onto slurried BBS for 100 X-Strokes then that particular razor was finished on my Les Lat on straight water, 100 X Strokes. Okay?, so I shaved with this sharp razor then tried to regain the sharpness on straight water on La Verte and it was no go, it definitely would not under cut straight water, no matter how many X-Strokes I did on straight water, and I did several hundred, but when I performed X Strokes on slurried La Verte, the edge came around and began to under cut. Guess what? I tried with a 3rd razor, a sharp razor that cut my beard well then I tired to lap on straight water on the La Verte and it was the same deal. No under cutting, until I did X Strokes with slurry for a bit, then it would under cut which meant to me the edge was again keen

Now trust me, i was enjoying all of this despite being perplexed...and I love the edges I'm getting of La Verte. Compared with Les Lat, the edges I'm getting off La Verte, they're a bit keener, and I like that. Who wouldn't want a sharper razor?, but can anyone explain to me why this is?, why I can't just go to straight water lapping on La Verte? Lets see?...I shaved with my Chas Smith, my nicer Ern, my nicer Goldedge, this one
6153518497_147fabc517_b.jpg

my Boker Red Injun, an older vintage Engels that I just busted up one of the schales trying to tighten the pivot pin. Everyone of those razors were sharp before shaving and when i tried to refresh the edge on straight water on La Verte, it would not under cut so I had to get the edge back first with slurry, then I could go to straight water


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
 
Wet your La Verte and rub it once with a slurry stone, no matter if you see evidence of slurry or not. Finish on that. Add a couple drops of water if you feel so inclined after a while, but do not rinse.
:thumbup:

Bart.
 
Aw Snap!~ I already sharpened the razor I last used before reading your reply Bart=:-(...but I will try your suggestion after shaving tomorrow. I'll let you know how it goes. Oh!, and if I may ask...after doing what you said here with la Verte & one stroke with the slurry stone, I'll be able to undercut water on top of the stone correct?


Best,


Jake
Reddick Fla.
 
Hi Jake.Bart well advises. I never heard so far a reference on HHT http://www.coticule.be/hanging-hair-test.html in your posts.
Don't forget that the HHT is the best indicator how a razor cuts my friend, except the shave itself.
Normally La Verte is a very slow coticule but always gives a sharp and smooth edge. Another tip is:
when you hone a razor by a full dilucot on a type of coticule ,the best way is to keep the same coticule for the next refreshing .Changing the hone something goes wrong.Isn't logic but some times happens . Many times monitoring you-tube clips concerning coticules honing ,some guys start with a coticule on slurry applying a dilucot (vestigial) and then jump on an Eshcer and finally on another coticule.That's is unacceptable (always for me).
So my friend you have to use the HHT keeping the same hone for the whole honing or at least for a touch up.
Best regards
Emmanuel
 
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