Oil on coticule?

[urmas]

BUT... and here's the caveat, for me: I'm struggling now with edges that are too sharp, and lack a certain smoothness. Very reminiscent of the unicot edge Bart had me do once, sans slurry. Sharp, and very keen, but lacking that legendary smoothness.

Thanks Chis,

Have you tried to finish at the end of oil-honing with 50 x-strokes on water? Another idea - what if when you rise a slurry with oil...
This oil honing is interesting - I certainly need to try this.

Regards,
Urmas

 

[TM280]

If it is good enough for Chris, it should be good enough for me. Or so I thought. Here is a little cautionary tale:

I ran some laps on my La Grise to check the HHT, good but could be better. So I used about four drops of honing oil that came with a Arkansas set I have. Used Chris' lap count, a little improvement but nothing that I wouldn't have gotten off of water or dry. Nothing dramatic, and I don't like the mess, so I figure that I will stick with my regular routine.

Here is the rub: cleaned the La Grise with dish washing soap and nylon scrub pad. The oil stained the stone, but nothing I couldn't live with. Took the razor back to the stone and there was an enormous rough feedback, scratchy and abrasive. Normally this stone is glassy and magnetic. After 35 x strokes I managed to kill the HHT entirely. Lapped the stone (still faint staining) and the fine surface reemerged, after a good bit of work got the edge back to where I liked it.

No idea of what happened, have used dish soap before with no problem on other stones. I guess it just depends on the stone and oil one uses...

regards,
Torolf

 

[wdwrx]

Well shit. Now i feel horrible. I've only got experience with three coticules, none of which are La Grise. Bart's mentioned that he also experienced staining with one particular stone, IIRC, but the change in surface texture is a completely unforseen result. I never would have imagined any such thing could happen.
Of course, it makes me think that the oil must be dissolving some component of the stone, but I really have no idea about what might be going on.

Just out of curiosity, does the La Grise layer differ in any way from other layers? Are there any defining characteristics that set it apart?


Cheers, and my apologies, Torolf
-Chris (the guy with the hang-over)

 

[TM280]

Not your fault, Chris!

My La Grise is deeply striated, translucent with orange dots, very 3D. Very unlike other stones I have seen. I chose that one because I routinely get the finest edges off of it and have great success using it dry, both on the BBW and coticule sides. So I wanted to see if the oil could give me an improvement over the best I get otherwise.

I find it hard to think that oil will dissolve anything, but it did seem like that, but then I don't know what this honing oil is...I should have tried camillia maybe...

UPDATE: Ok, the importance of controlling for variables. I just went back and washed the stone again with soap and nylon scrub sponge. The rough surface came back! Whether this is due to the residual oil still in the stone or what, who knows... Lapping smoothed it out again. And now I have to touch up another razor...
I don't know what is going on here...

regards,
Torolf

 

[Matt]

Good luck, folks. I'll stick to good ol'water.

 

[Disburden]

This morning I used some mineral oil on one of my razors and a La nouvlle Veine coticule, my first. I made about 50 laps on the oil, since I've heard oil honing is slower than water honing, I made sure the X strokes were slow and accurate. After I honed the razor I ran warm water on the stone with a little dish soap to get the oil off, this worked fine for me and I had no ill effect. After that I rubbed the slurry stone on the coticule while the faucet was running to create a clean surface. The stone is exactly as it was before I used oil on it, no water beading, etc.

The shave was a very crisp one, the edge wasn't harsh at all but it definitely had some sharpness to it that wasn't there before when I had a water finish. If you really like your mellow edges I would stick with them, if you want something crisp or engaging try this out, I would make sure you have a hard smooth coticule for this since the previous post said the porous coticules may have an issue with the oil?

 

[wdwrx]

Have you tried to finish at the end of oil-honing with 50 x-strokes on water? Another idea - what if when you rise a slurry with oil...

I've been coming around to this idea. I wasn't quit sure how I was going to raise a slurry with an oily stone, but I think my EZ-lap would do it with oil on the stone.
It might also be a good idea to go back to a very light slurry and water again to regain some of that smoothness. Maybe even just a simple reduction in the amount of strokes would help.
Nick described it better with "crisp", and that's how I've been finding my shaves. If anything, too crispy.
From the first time I've shaved with a coti edge, I've had this feeling that the edges I'm able to create are just a shade not sharp enough. The blade Cedrick did, and the one I have from Gary, are phenomenal edges, both crazy sharp, and fully smooth. Mine aren't quite there... but I'm plagued by in-grown hairs when i shave with an edge that is too sharp, so I'm trying desperately to dial in a edge I can use with impunity.

 

[Bart]

UPDATE: Ok, the importance of controlling for variables. I just went back and washed the stone again with soap and nylon scrub sponge. The rough surface came back! Whether this is due to the residual oil still in the stone or what, who knows... Lapping smoothed it out again. And now I have to touch up another razor...
I don't know what is going on here...

regards,
Torolf

Maybe it's a spot in the Coticule, where softer binder rock can be scrubbed away with a nylon brush, leaving a coarse structure of well exposed garnets and harder binder intact?

Just thinking out loud, here.

I went through a phase of putting many substances on a Coticule, about 2 years ago, including oil, lather, dish soap, gelatin in water, gum arabic in water, etc. I settled for pure water in the end, end occasionally lather.

You guys have fun while at it!:thumbup:

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[Guest]

I went through a phase of putting many substances on a Coticule, about 2 years ago, including oil, lather, dish soap, gelatin in water, gum arabic in water, etc. I settled for pure water in the end, end occasionally lather.

You guys have fun while at it!:thumbup:

Kind regards,
Bart.

Dears
My thirty years' experience with the coticules obliges me to say water .
But i would like to say that :are not all the coticules same.For my opignion the coticules that
cut very rapidly and very fine is the coticules that usually coming from the old rock and some times from different veins but all of them have the same characteristic ,vertical black lines
along the stone,like the hone that Bart demostrates in the dilucot methods.Kindly needed the
Bart comments.
Best regards
Emmanuel

 

[DJKELLY]

Not your fault, Chris!

My La Grise is deeply striated, translucent with orange dots, very 3D. Very unlike other stones I have seen. I chose that one because I routinely get the finest edges off of it and have great success using it dry, both on the BBW and coticule sides. So I wanted to see if the oil could give me an improvement over the best I get otherwise.

I find it hard to think that oil will dissolve anything, but it did seem like that, but then I don't know what this honing oil is...I should have tried camillia maybe...

UPDATE: Ok, the importance of controlling for variables. I just went back and washed the stone again with soap and nylon scrub sponge. The rough surface came back! Whether this is due to the residual oil still in the stone or what, who knows... Lapping smoothed it out again. And now I have to touch up another razor...
I don't know what is going on here...

regards,
Torolf

Torolf, I would bet it is the nylon scrub pad! If you have one single hair on the surface of the hone you know now bad it feels. I don't use oil all that much but have done so at least 30 times, and have never had a problem with staining or roughness when I wash with Dawn dishwashing liquid and just my fingers. If your dishwashing liquid is not stong enough, liquid Tide, All, Cheer or other clothes washing liquid is much stronger than dishwashing soap. I wouldn't use anything other than my fingers or a lint free cloth (mechanic's shop cloth) in the process, preferably fingers only.

Your pal, Denny

 

[TM280]

Yep, Denny, I think you and Bart have it. I just wouldn't have thought it possible.

As it goes: "A man walks into a doctor's office and says, 'Doc, it hurts when I do this...'"...

regards,
Torolf

 

[Guest]

Guys do not add oil on your coticules .If you do it friquently ,even after lapping and although coticules are not porus stones ,it will be show a tendency to bead-up .
Best Regards
Emmanuel