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over honing
- Thread starter cooltide
- Start Date
garyhaywood
Well-Known Member
with a coticule? i dout it i have done n200 passes before on coticule it did'nt get much sharper nor any duller. with water that was.Unless you use far to much pressure or bad stroke then i would say no.
tat2Ralfy
Well-Known Member
I would say the same, on a coticule with water I dont believe you can spoil the edge by doing too many laps, you can overhone i.e. remove too much steel, but you will have to go some.
you can of course ruin the edge by using bad technique, but that goes with any hone or method.
I too have done easily 300 laps on water and found the edge stays constant, providing the stroke is constant too.
Why do you ask BTW?
Regards
Ralson (Dr)
you can of course ruin the edge by using bad technique, but that goes with any hone or method.
I too have done easily 300 laps on water and found the edge stays constant, providing the stroke is constant too.
Why do you ask BTW?
Regards
Ralson (Dr)
Bart
Well-Known Member
My sharpening godfather (he's younger than me) David Polan once did an experiment. He did 100 laps on a Coticule with water and test shaved. Next day he did 200 laps and test shaved again. A day later, 300, and test shaved again. (The numbers may be slightly different but you get the idea). In then end, he had done well over 1000 laps. The shaves just stayed the same, which was excellent, according to David's standards.
In my personal experience, I have never seen any evidence of overhoning on a Coticule, neither with slurry or water, and I check all razors I hone with a stereo microscope.
So far for "overhoning".
The other question is more interesting. Is it possible to dull the edge by finishing on water? It often happens that someone who's learning to hone reports that his razor got "duller" on the next hone. I think that what happens is this. Most synthetic hones in the 1K-4K region leave a microscopic sawtooth pattern at the edge. This pattern lends great performance to an edge. The spiky points can penetrate a hair's shaft easier than a smooth edge. Compare it to how easily a serrated knife cuts through a tomato skin, while a non serrated knife really needs to be very keen to do it with equal ease. So why don't we equip all our razors with these micro-serrations? That is because the edge also touches our skin. We try to sever hair and at the same time avoid blemishing our skin. A smooth edge is much better for that, but it does require more keenness. So on the next hone in the progression (could be a Coticule), we aim to reduce the microscopic sawtooth pattern. That happens pretty fast. The edge looses it's performance advantage withing few laps. But the naked keenness still needs to rise. Hence we perceive the edge initially as becoming duller. If you go too soon to a Coticule with water only, possibly all that will happen is that the edge smooths out the teeth, and you end up with a razor that lacks keenness, yet your finisher lacks the power to do anything about it. So you end up with a very smooth and very dull edge. Duller than it was before you finished it.
Coticules are fine enough finishers to be bothered easily about this. I have been told once, that in Japanese sharpening tradition, it is considered normal that the finest stones only make a difference in the hands of the master.
Kind regards,
Bart.
In my personal experience, I have never seen any evidence of overhoning on a Coticule, neither with slurry or water, and I check all razors I hone with a stereo microscope.
So far for "overhoning".
The other question is more interesting. Is it possible to dull the edge by finishing on water? It often happens that someone who's learning to hone reports that his razor got "duller" on the next hone. I think that what happens is this. Most synthetic hones in the 1K-4K region leave a microscopic sawtooth pattern at the edge. This pattern lends great performance to an edge. The spiky points can penetrate a hair's shaft easier than a smooth edge. Compare it to how easily a serrated knife cuts through a tomato skin, while a non serrated knife really needs to be very keen to do it with equal ease. So why don't we equip all our razors with these micro-serrations? That is because the edge also touches our skin. We try to sever hair and at the same time avoid blemishing our skin. A smooth edge is much better for that, but it does require more keenness. So on the next hone in the progression (could be a Coticule), we aim to reduce the microscopic sawtooth pattern. That happens pretty fast. The edge looses it's performance advantage withing few laps. But the naked keenness still needs to rise. Hence we perceive the edge initially as becoming duller. If you go too soon to a Coticule with water only, possibly all that will happen is that the edge smooths out the teeth, and you end up with a razor that lacks keenness, yet your finisher lacks the power to do anything about it. So you end up with a very smooth and very dull edge. Duller than it was before you finished it.
Coticules are fine enough finishers to be bothered easily about this. I have been told once, that in Japanese sharpening tradition, it is considered normal that the finest stones only make a difference in the hands of the master.
Kind regards,
Bart.
thats good to know, thanks for the quick reply i only have a coticule & a vintage thuringian & i don't plan to get any plastic hones any time soon,the edge that i'm able to get with my coticule is fantastic maybe it's beginners luck, i am using the unicot method as it seems to work a treat, but the only problem i see in time to come, sometimes it can be very hard to create a good slurry so mabye this stone is very slow to cut metal & prob a better finisher, but i plan to get a faster coticule to counter act against this, so if any of you guys want to leave the keys to the vault let me know,
tat2Ralfy
Well-Known Member
I see, but theres no [big] BIG [/big] button 
there is a [sup]Superscript[/sup] button
and also a [sub]Subscript[/sub] one
Bold Italic and even underline
But no [big]BIG[/big]:blink:
And dont even get me started on lists
Maybe its some secret code thing?
hahaha
Best wishes and now I know so thanks:thumbup:
Ralfson
there is a [sup]Superscript[/sup] button
and also a [sub]Subscript[/sub] one
Bold Italic and even underline
But no [big]BIG[/big]:blink:
And dont even get me started on lists
[li]I gave[/li]
[li]up on[/li]
[li]them[/li]
Maybe its some secret code thing?
hahaha
Best wishes and now I know so thanks:thumbup:
Ralfson
Matt
Well-Known Member
tat2Ralfy said:Fuck me!
How long has that been there:blink:
I dont know! sneaking new buttons up on me like that!
Bwhahahaha
rofl
: : : Actually, since the very beginning as far as I remember. It's just that you probably - just as I did - stopped perceiving it, thinking (consciously or subconsciously) 'phew, help? I don't need help for using a forum, do I?' - I happened to click it only a month or two ago.
Nice, huh? :thumbup: kind regards,
Matt