permanent marker test....

stalker

Well-Known Member
i have read bart's article about the bevel ckeck with permanent marker.... when i should perform this test? after the dilucot procedure, and before the finishing stage with water??

if the bevel not contact the hone properly, i should return in the first stage bevel session with coticule, or i should set a new bevel with the 600 dmt?

thanks..
 

rayman

Well-Known Member
Here is the process I normally use to check the edge with a marker. Before I get my stone ready, I put a black mark along the edge of both sides of the razor. While this is drying, I get the stone ready and if I am working on a wedge, add one piece of tape to the spine.

Once the marker is dry, I make one slow pass up the stone and one slow pass down. Immediately take a look at the edge. Any spot of marker that has not been removed, on both sides, will be your area of concern.

Pay attention to where the mark is located and slowly move the blade up or down the stone to try and find the correct stroke to remove the mark. Once you find it, do the same with the other side.

Re-mark the edge, let it dry, and try the test again, only this time compensate for the removal. If your extreme edge has no marking on it, then you have found the stroke you will need to hone this razor from beginning to end. If not, keep going until you do.

There is one situation where you might find 2 or 3 spots along the same edge where the marker isn't coming off. This calls for a different remedy. If you see this condition, cut a piece of tape, that is the same length as the unremoved marker, and place it directly above the mark. Cut the tape so it doesn't wrap around the spine to the other side. Do this for each mark and on both sides if necessary. On top of this put one full piece of tape down the spine to cover these pieces. Start to hone the razor and you will see the bevel created very evenly now and you should also see the dark lines disappear.

Make your strokes a bit slower than normal, until you have a rhythm going, then you can speed up a little. Remember, no one cares how fast you hone except you.

Let us know if you have issues with this.

Ray
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
ray i've heard of this before. when one would need a touch up would they have to replace the tape in the same areas. or can you touch up with out the taped areas.i have hit this problem a thew times. i have had to use a narrow hone. i'd prefer to use my favourite 60mm wide hone but carn't because of the problem you just mentioned. i'd like to try your method, does the method corect the problem , so next time round for touch up i could hone with out tape.

gary
 

rayman

Well-Known Member
garyhaywood said:
ray i've heard of this before. when one would need a touch up would they have to replace the tape in the same areas. or can you touch up with out the taped areas.i have hit this problem a thew times. i have had to use a narrow hone. i'd prefer to use my favourite 60mm wide hone but carn't because of the problem you just mentioned. i'd like to try your method, does the method corect the problem , so next time round for touch up i could hone with out tape.

gary
Gary,
I use the marker method on almost every razor I hone. I have found, when I run into ones like this, that the issue is in the spine, and not in the edge. So answering your question, NO, this doesn't eliminate the problem from then on, it just makes it possible to have a consistent bevel. And for those who are just learning, it is important to know that the bevel consists of 2 parts. First is the bevel itself. It is nice to have the bevel as consistent over its length, but not necessarily the same width on both sides. Second, and most important, the forming and sharpness of the edge. These are two separate items and you need to pay attention to both.

So if you hone that razor again, you will need to do the same adjustments to get the edge and bevel correct.

Ray
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
i get you now . i had a razor and i had the same issue,in one spot. i could get the whole edge sharp except that part. i can normaly see a warp if i look close.so in efect you are evening the spine out, i will remember this and give it a whirl . good tip ray
 

pedalpowersailing

Well-Known Member
I use this method all the time. I think Ray eluded too it many months ago. It is not difficult at all and takes only seconds longer. My only addition is to get some decent tape so that it sticks well. I fully agree with Ray for the most part (on my razors anyway) it is not the edge that is out of true - more likely the spine
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Its a wonderful method that has helped me a lot on warped blades :thumbup:

However I believe the OP was asking about using a marker for general honing on "un Problem" blades, the thing here is to mark the edge before going to the hone, that way after doing a few strokes you can check if you are hitting the entire bevel at a glance, and adjust your stroke if you need to.

Best Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 

wdwrx

Well-Known Member
rayman said:
Here is the process I normally use to check the edge with a marker. Before I get my stone ready, I put a black mark along the edge of both sides of the razor. While this is drying, I get the stone ready and if I am working on a wedge, add one piece of tape to the spine.

Once the marker is dry, I make one slow pass up the stone and one slow pass down. Immediately take a look at the edge. Any spot of marker that has not been removed, on both sides, will be your area of concern.

Pay attention to where the mark is located and slowly move the blade up or down the stone to try and find the correct stroke to remove the mark. Once you find it, do the same with the other side.

Re-mark the edge, let it dry, and try the test again, only this time compensate for the removal. If your extreme edge has no marking on it, then you have found the stroke you will need to hone this razor from beginning to end. If not, keep going until you do.

There is one situation where you might find 2 or 3 spots along the same edge where the marker isn't coming off. This calls for a different remedy. If you see this condition, cut a piece of tape, that is the same length as the unremoved marker, and place it directly above the mark. Cut the tape so it doesn't wrap around the spine to the other side. Do this for each mark and on both sides if necessary. On top of this put one full piece of tape down the spine to cover these pieces. Start to hone the razor and you will see the bevel created very evenly now and you should also see the dark lines disappear.

...
Ray
This is good stuff.:thumbup:
I'd been
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, without having it explained well in the Queen's English. It worked a charm but i didn't fully grasp the mechanics behind it.
Thanks for the lucid explanaition.

Cheers,
-Chris
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
i've had many razors that seem ok , as i see a nice run of water up the edge. I have then remarkerd the edge only to reveal there is a part of the bevel that is not contacting the hone. It is a very good method and i always used it to detect double bevels, warps etc .i'll have to try the taping of the spine next. ray when you add one layer of tape over the tiny pieces of tape , do you cover both sides with that layer of tape ? or just the one side where needed?

thanxs gary
 

rayman

Well-Known Member
garyhaywood said:
do you cover both sides with that layer of tape ? or just the one side where needed?

thanxs gary
I have never yet had a razor that needed adjustment like this on just one side, so in those cases I had to add the covering tape on both sides.

The purpose of taping over the individual pieces is to simply protect them from coming off during the honing process. I tried to not add this once and the results were laughable. Pieces would just work their way off and I had to go back and start all over.

I also think in the big picture that one piece of tape on the spine, only adding about .003 in thickness, doesn't really make much of a difference anyway, so if you added it to both sides, I don't think it would really matter.

Ray
 

urmas

Well-Known Member
Ray,

Thank you! This method is exactly what I need to step forward. I feel that bevel creating errors are that major thing that held me back.
You don't talk much on forum, but every time you do it... it's like gold nuggets are rolling out of you. :)

Regards,
Urmas
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
urmas said:
Ray,

Thank you! This method is exactly what I need to step forward. I feel that bevel creating errors are that major thing that held me back.
You don't talk much on forum, but every time you do it... it's like gold nuggets are rolling out of you. :)

Regards,
Urmas
urmas hair is on the way,

cheers gary
 

urmas

Well-Known Member
garyhaywood said:
urmas said:
Ray,

Thank you! This method is exactly what I need to step forward. I feel that bevel creating errors are that major thing that held me back.
You don't talk much on forum, but every time you do it... it's like gold nuggets are rolling out of you. :)

Regards,
Urmas
urmas hair is on the way,

cheers gary
Thaks Gary. I sent you a message.

Regard,
Urmas
 
Top