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Problem with dilucot.

macrob

Producer/ Dealer
Hi.
I read all articles in Coticule Sharpening Academy and all topics in Coticule Tavern so i think i'm well prepared.:)
The problem is that I can't get good results when i trying to perform dilucot. My unicot is pretty straight forward and i'm getting HHT-2 somtimes 3. Shaves are very smooth. I sticked to one stone and i'm trying to know that stone as far as i can.The stone is the one from
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thread. I'm using yellow-greenish side.
I'm starting with milky slurry and i'm doing 30 half strokes per side. I'm trying to not allow slurry to become to dry (drop of water every two -three series of strokes). I'm using minimal pressure applied by finger. At the end HHT is 0.
I was trying to do 50 even 100 more strokes on clear water but have no luck.

I've noticed that x-strokes works better for me than half strokes. When i'm setting a bevel i'm doing two or three series of 30 half strokes and razor is not shaving arm hair but when i do 20 x-strokes without pressure it does.

Maybe i should do about 20 x-strokes every 2 or 3 series of half strokes ?

I'd be very grateful for any advice.:)

Regards.
Maciek.
 

Aquanin

Well-Known Member
Try to dilute faster. You say you are adding a drop of water every 2 or 3 sets of half strokes? Add a drop between each set of 25 half strokes or so instead. Your slurry may be drying up more than you think and you will get slurry dulling if that is the case.
 

macrob

Producer/ Dealer
Thank you Aquanin.
Looks like you're right.:) Bevel setted with just half strokes. HHT-2 after stropping. I wouldn't figure it out by myself.
I'll keep experimenting with amounts of strokes beetwen dilutions.:)

Why x-strokes gave me better feedback than half strokes before ? I don't know.

Regards.
Maciek.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
You do half strokes for honing, because its faster, You set bevel, with half strokes, and you carn't shave arm hair that well or at all. then you perform 20 ligt x strokes and you can shave arm hair. This can happen, due to slight presure , by doing 10 or 20 light x strokes the edge will become finer, and shave easier, or your slurry could be to thick and be restricting keeness,

If i was you. I would do half strokes, use tpt and feel if the edge hold well on the tpt, if it does add a drop of water do 20 light x strokes, the edge should easily under cut the slurry. then try arm hair test. if you easily shave arm hair. start to hone and you ca add a drop of water every set of half strokes, Once slurry is washed away , finish with light x strokes on water to obtain a nice fine edge . Just watch your slurry and controll it with water , and don't push it of the end of hone, kep it on the stone, it will come of sides that carn't be helped , especialy on narrow hone. mild presure during dilutions won't harm, infact it may help .

gary
 

macrob

Producer/ Dealer
Thank you Gary.
I'm trying to use almost no pressure at all now.
I honed second razor 10 minutes ago. I was diluting after every set of 20 strokes.Would say HHT 3 after stropping.
You're suggesting 20 x-strokes in right moment to refine the edge ? I was thinking about it. It remind me "Honing pyramid".
I see a light at the end of the tunnel now.:) With your help Lads.
Regards.
Maciek.
 

Emmanuel

Well-Known Member
Maciek .Gary well advise.I understood.1)X strokes give better feed backs for a reason that Gary said, namely because are lighter and because hone one side and then the other side and so on ,contrary half strokes hone lop-sided but cut much faster.I suggest to continue with dilution and half strokes until razor shaves well arm hair across the edge. Continue adding water .Once the edge loses the foggy appearance coming more glairy test whats going on with arm hair. Normally should shave much better.
Here rinse the straight and the hone.Fill a plastic container with water and sink the blade every a set of half strokes. Spent time with half strokes ,no problem a little bit more is nothing to do.
Finally perform 60 x strokes sinking always the razor in the water . If overflows the hone does not matter.wiped thoroughly the edge and try HHT.
Keep us informed. I hope i gave in English what exactly i want to say .
Best regards
Emmanuel
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
garyhaywood said:
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i only would do the 20 x strokes to get a better reading of arm hair test, after that, also see how the edge is under cutting slury, after that just dilute till end and work on water. just keep practising, i still do. You will notice somthing differant every time.

gary
 

Matt

Well-Known Member
Maciek,

Do remember about the slight increase in number of laps during consecutive dilutions. I own one of the most difficult veins to tame - La Grosse Blanche - and increasing laps count towards the end did a tremendous difference. For a beginning, that might help, too.

cheers,
Matt
 

macrob

Producer/ Dealer
Ok. I'm after honing session. HHT-0 after stone.I realized that my strokes are too fast.I slowed them down and like Gary said i used mild pressure. Much better now. Well maybe next time i will get better results.:)

Regards.
Maciek.
 

justalex

Well-Known Member
My breakthrough came when I watched; 1.the edge for it getting shinier to dilute 2. the feel of the razor's edge on the hone getting smoother and 3. the slurry/water wave being pushed by the razor. After I started concentrating on these three factors (this dictated the number of laps) my edges at least came off a violin HHT1, which quickly became a 3 after a couple of sets of 15 halfstrokes and 30-50 x strokes on water

regards alex
 

Disburden

Well-Known Member
I can't really add much to what has been said for tips, it's all great advice. I used to struggle a lot on coticules, now not much at all anymore, I just keep honing on water until I reach where I want to be. Slurry is important for setting the bevel but once that is achieved it isn't nearly as important anymore. One rub of the slurry stone can make a very light slurry for getting some sharpness back, or just some half strokes on water with some pressure.

The advice on using the slurry stone to refresh the surface is very good, I tried it and it really works. I had a vintage stone that felt completely different when refreshed, went from very very slow to a lot quicker...strange. :confused: The edge also came out a lot sharper but just as mellow.

Some times I can't get anything on a HHT at all, nothing more than 0. I don't worry that much about it, I use my wife's hair and she is blonde...the hair is very light and fair. I am sure if I had enough hair of my own which is dark, thick, etc, I would get much different results. If I use a La Verte stone for finishing an edge the HHT with her hair pops around a 2-3 before stropping...If I use a La Nouvelle Veine or another stone known for it's mellow edges then the HHT is always near 0 before stropping. My shaves always end up fine either way, I haven't had much problems in a while.
 

macrob

Producer/ Dealer
Thanks Nick.
I think if i'll practice it will come eventually. Like Gary said every time i notice something different.
How long took you guys to get a decent results ?
Regards.
Maciek.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
My first coticule was nothing but bad luck, i did'nt have the info we now have. so i put mine away for a while, untill bart came along with his break throught then i started trying again, emailing bart back and forth, then i tryed the unicot method witch worked . then i tryed bats dilucot, with out back and forth strokes and full on normal x strokes, except for bevel setting we used back and forth strokes. So it took me a long time, maybe 6 months, untill one day i was caught of gaurd, with new la grosse jaune on my ti silver wing, it was my tenth atempt on same razor and finaly i got the first and still one of the smoothest edges ever. All i can say is it felt brill, ever since i chase that edge . i ca say now i still have my highs and lows, but more often the highs. i practised every nigh on probably not the easiest razors to hone, which was double arrows. eve now i still hone just for keeping my hand in and more fun. all i can say is practice a thew times a week on a razor or two that you can spear. It won't belong before you post on a fantastic result:thumbup:
 

Matt

Well-Known Member
:D :D :D I do the tests on the very upper parts of arms, not far from the shoulders. The hair is more delicate there and so is more sensitive to the tests. The patches are less visible, too. :p

All I can say is that I feel that in a way I was damn lucky to start straight shaving so late. Late enough to have nearly all shaves ever from coticule edges, without spending a fortune (which I never had) on a bunch of other hones.

cheers,
Matt
 
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