Progress

[Bart]

Lovely post, Bart, thank you - it made me grin to my monitor several times And made me want to get such a fantastic shave, too.

Of course, there's always the Indian apart from the arrows. I'm far from stating there's nothing to my technique, [big]BUT[/big] I made some interesting observations this weekend (actually me and my Anna both did).

My regular shaving intervals are three to four days. Not that my stubble grows that slow. The day after is perfectly OK (I always shave in the evening) and I could do it on the second day, as far as the growth is concerned. Now here it comes. The day after the shave my skin feels great (great I mean it, cartridges hear this!), but another (2[sup]nd[/sup]) day it starts to itch, burn here and there, and depending on how things go, I can have a next shave no sooner than three or four days later, until the skin settles a bit. If I dare to shave on 2nd day, things will get hectic, and I will be nicked hard.

On sunday morning my Anna made some interesting observation that seem to confirm what I suspect. She loooked at my neck noticing it's still a bit sore (I had a really close 3-pass shave a few days earlier) and she realised there are quite many ingrowns here and there. I usually get hardly any nicks during my shaves - so my idea is that my stupid hair somehow have difficulties with growing back out, and this is the time I get most itching and discomfort. Some grow through, some apparently can't make it. I was thinking that maybe some peeling or some other crap like this might help?

Still it all indeed has nothing to do with comfortable ATG. I'm sure some learning from the masters would help. But this second day discomfort made me wonder a little?

Sorry for another rant on this subject.

best regards,
Matt

Matt, you are spot on with answerring your own questions. If the skin is fine after the shave but starts protesting the next day, the problem is with the hairs having a hard time growing back out.

That has a lot to do with the curliness of your beard, and the fact that you shave close enough to get them underneath the skin. When you shave at a moment you've still several skin papilae with a whisker trapped inside, you'll slice these all open, leaving a bloody mess, irritation, etc...

The bad news is, that the problem is in your genes, and that cannot be fixed of course.
The good news is, that there are a few strategies that can each on their own lessen the likelihood of ingrowns and after enough finetuning the combined result can potentially make a huge difference.
Here goes:

1. don't shower before you shave. Steam softens the beard, which is good. But it also hydrates the hairs to the very root, which makes them swell and lift up in their skin pockets. Afterwards they retract a bit, which makes the shave even closer, but in your case flush with skin level is what we want, not below.

2. for a similar reason, don't prep too long. Find a good basic lathering soap, and get the whiskers softened with a good hot lather. In your particular case and against all common advice, I would start with lathering as short as possible: strop the razor, put everything ready, wash face briefly with a soap that cleans the beard but leave the natural oily skin barier intact (talk to your pharmacist), lather with a good shaving soap, and immediately go to work. You may need to adjust this to your situation, but I would start right there: with no soaking time.

3. find a way to close the skin pores after shaving. I hope you have an alum block. First rinse with cold water; next they alum block. Experiment with the aftershave. Many balms put so much moisture in the skin that it swells a bit. Again that may interfere with the hairs growing back out. You're probably better of with a simple splash. It may not make your skin appear like that of a baby, but then again, you are not a baby, are you?

4. How is cut can either promote or interfere with its chances to grow back out. If you stretch the skin in the direction of the hair growth, the whiskers will be pulled flat against your skin, and the resulting end cut will be bevelled, giving the hair a pointy, thin end that can easily curl and start growing in the wrong direction. If you stretch during ATG in front of the edge, hence pulling the whiskers up, the end cut will be closer to a 90° angle. That can make a significant difference for your hairs to grow back out.
Here are 2 old drawings of mine, that shows the idea of stretching from the right side.

5. Related to tip n°4, it also makes a difference in what direction you shave the hair (full ATG, or slightly more XTG), but guys with your problem have usually swirling beard growth, so this tip may not be very useful. Nevertheless, it is a good idea to experiment with the shaving direction a bit. Maybe you'll have to trade some closeness for an improvement of regrowth.

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[Matt]

The bad news is, that the problem is in your genes, and that cannot be fixed of course.

Why not, dammit! I think I'll go on some Tchernobyl cruise, maybe that will help a little... : : :

1. don't shower before you shave. Steam softens the beard, which is good. But it also hydrates the hairs to the very root, which makes them swell and lift up in their skin pockets. Afterwards they retract a bit, which makes the shave even closer, but in your case flush with skin level is what we want, not below.

2. for a similar reason, don't prep too long. Find a good basic lathering soap, and get the whiskers softened with a good hot lather. In your particular case and against all common advice, I would start with lathering as short as possible: strop the razor, put everything ready, wash face briefly with a soap that cleans the beard but leave the natural oily skin barier intact (talk to your pharmacist), lather with a good shaving soap, and immediately go to work. You may need to adjust this to your situation, but I would start right there: with no soaking time.

Uh, oh. I will try it, though sounds like a real challenge. Those fuckers are at least o.1 mm thick and ain't soft, and occasionally my skin produces behemoths of up to o.3 mm. Measured!

3. find a way to close the skin pores after shaving. I hope you have an alum block. First rinse with cold water; next they alum block. Experiment with the aftershave. Many balms put so much moisture in the skin that it swells a bit. Again that may interfere with the hairs growing back out. You're probably better of with a simple splash. It may not make your skin appear like that of a baby, but then again, you are not a baby, are you?

Nope, Sir. As I understand, you mean an alcohol based splash, right? Alum block is being used regularly.

4. How is cut can either promote or interfere with its chances to grow back out. If you stretch the skin in the direction of the hair growth, the whiskers will be pulled flat against your skin, and the resulting end cut will be bevelled, giving the hair a pointy, thin end that can easily curl and start growing in the wrong direction. If you stretch during ATG in front of the edge, hence pulling the whiskers up, the end cut will be closer to a 90° angle. That can make a significant difference for your hairs to grow back out.

5. Related to tip n°4, it also makes a difference in what direction you shave the hair (full ATG, or slightly more XTG), but guys with your problem have usually swirling beard growth, so this tip may not be very useful. Nevertheless, it is a good idea to experiment with the shaving direction a bit. Maybe you'll have to trade some closeness for an improvement of regrowth.

Hmm. That's another story which I wanted to discuss some day, and maybe it's the right time. I uploaded my picture to www.map-my-growth.com and this is what I got:

[c]

[/c]

Most of them grow back, as you can see, i.e. towards the back of the neck, but what's really hard is the part below the jawline and on the sides of the neck. I find it nearly impossible to do ATG stroke there. I can't think of any comfortable way of keeping he razor parallel to the neck without the risk of digging the point upwards below the jaw. So anyway I suppose I should concentrate on stretching the skin in correct direction. Sigh. I think I'd have really benefited from this weekend! But I just recalled today that my friend lives in London so if I finally visit her I might kill two birds with one stone.

thanks heaps Sir, and my kindest regards
Matt

 

[Woodash]

Hey Matt -

Is that map-my-growth.com site still around? I couldn't open it; search comes up empty.
Woodash/Steve

 

[Matt]

Steve,

It may suffer from high traffic, this is why you couldn't access it. Send me a picture to mangusta[at]o2[dot]pl and I'll see if I can make it.

kind regards,
Matt

 

[Bart]

Now, wait just a minute. Are you saying that this mapping website, determines your growth direction based on an uploaded picture?
Excuse me for being very skeptic about that. I would at least try to do my own growth mapping, if I were you.

Yes, I meant alcohol based splash.

Concerning prep time, I suggested to start at zero, but without predicting that you'd settle for that. I only think that in your particular case, you must aim to shave as close as possible without the whisker tips ending up below skin level. A soaking time that promotes the hair roots to swell and lift up a bit, may not be your best approach. On the weekend, I saw Gary doing quite the opposite and I loved it! But in your case, we must look for the closest shave you can get away with. That's why I gave you all this odd advice.

Good luck,
Bart.

 

[Matt]

Now, wait just a minute. Are you saying that this mapping website, determines your growth direction based on an uploaded picture?
Excuse me for being very skeptic about that. I would at least try to do my own growth mapping, if I were you.

Well, it is technically possible. I've a friend who's doing PhD in image analysis and processing, and believe me, there are many things, that can be pulled out of a picture.

But I just wanted to show my growth so I googled for a proper image for showing cheeks and neck and added all the arrows. Then, when I was I was writing the post, an idea of a little prank came upon me, so I went back to add this fake www address. Mwahahahaahhaha! : : :

Of course I wouldn't rely on any such site, and actually all the directions are valid - I did my own mapping. So all the questions remain - I don't believe I'm the only one who has such growth, so how the heck guys do you manage to go ATG on the neck with such direction? Actually Bart, after reading your post I start to believe that ATG, giving the highest chance to cut the hair perpendicularly, might be crucial for me. Maybe again I'm just overanalyzing, but hell, I want irritation free skin after nearly 15 years of shaving, dammit!

BTW, I tried the fast approach yesterday. Crap, it felt really scratchy, I wish I could record the sound. I tried Taylor oOBS from our very Gary, I will also try Omega and Olivia's soap, though I've had troubles getting stable lather out of it.

Today, the skin feels alright, we'll see tomo.

best regards, thank you for all your replies and sorry gentlemen for pulling your leg :
Matt

 

[Woodash]

Now, wait just a minute....

Well, it is technically possible. I've a friend who's doing PhD in image analysis and processing, and believe me, there are many things, that can be pulled out of a picture.

But I just wanted to show my growth so I googled for a proper image for showing cheeks and neck and added all the arrows. Then, when I was I was writing the post, an idea of a little prank came upon me, so I went back to add this fake www address. Mwahahahaahhaha! : : :

I've been to that 'map my beard' site and all it did was map your beard on a 'cartoon image', so I was wondering how you got it overlain on a real image. Now, I get it....

 

[wdwrx]

...an idea of a little prank came upon me, so I went back to add this fake www address. Mwahahahaahhaha! : : :

Matt

Bwahahahaha!!!!
Good job!

 

[Bart]

BTW, I tried the fast approach yesterday. Crap, it felt really scratchy, I wish I could record the sound. I tried Taylor oOBS from our very Gary, I will also try Omega and Olivia's soap, though I've had troubles getting stable lather out of it.
Today, the skin feels alright, we'll see tomo.

Increase the prep time gradually. The idea is to find a prep that softens your whiskers without hydrating the roots so much that they will lift in their follicles. That should prevent you from shaving closer than skin level. (as I said in my first post, this is just one of the partial strategies)

best regards, thank you for all your replies and sorry gentlemen for pulling your leg :
Matt

Glad I didn't follow that link.

:thumbup:
Bart.

 

[Matt]

I must say I tried the "German Swiss shaving style" - as I nicknamed to myself the way this guy is shaving. Not surprisingly, I noticeably reduced shaving time, but also (behold!) my skin feels a lot better! :w00t: Seems that I was also trying to shave too precisely and to do too much during one pass, these long strokes work wonders! There obviously are places where the blade won't reach every hair, but hey, there's another pass on its way, right?

I think it was the next small step for me for better shaving technique. :thumbup:

I must however state that not everything from Germany is that great (sorry, Robin ). I gave Olivia's soap another try last Sunday and, man, that was a disaster. I couldn't make a stable lather from it either in a bowl, or directly on my face - though I was really trying hard. It just kept on disappearing 30 s after it was on my face, and the shave was horrible, no glide, no nothing, I earned quite an irritation. It felt like if I was trying to lather ordinary soap - I don't have a superfine brush, but it's a badger brush, nevertheless. I furiously scooped it out of the mug and just threw it away. I tried it several times before, but it just never worked for me at all. Quite odd, I've never ran into such problems with other products I've tried so far.

regards,
Matt

 

[Bart]

Thanks for the update, Matt. :thumbup:

For your information: Willi Heuser (not sure about correct name spelling), the guy in that video, is a Swiss fellow.

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[tat2Ralfy]

I gave Olivia's soap another try last Sunday and, man, that was a disaster. I couldn't make a stable lather from it either in a bowl, or directly on my face - though I was really trying hard. It just kept on disappearing 30 s after it was on my face, and the shave was horrible,

I know exactly what you mean Matt, I have got 6 tubs of the stuff, and only ever get good lather if I make it just right with my New Forest 2 band badger brush in a bowl, every other way I have tried and its just horrible, good news is if you do get it right its a delight.

And btw the guy in the video shaves like a maniac! ...lol did you see that first pass atg on his neck! I would be sore for a week...lol

TBH though it is an inspirational video isnt it? Mmm cant wait to shave again now

Best wishes
Ralfson (Dr)

 

[Bart]

And btw the guy in the video shaves like a maniac! ...lol did you see that first pass atg on his neck! I would be sore for a week...lol

No you won't. I like this video, because it shows us so well how much one can cut the crap. About two weeks ago, I ended up in the middle of a domestic quarrel with my wife just when I was about to shave. (The quarrel was unrelated to shaving, in case you wonder). My wife has Klingon blood in here veins, so there was a lot of yelling going on. In the mean time I was trying to lather up, and strop my razor and shave my face. I got so distracted that I forgot my entire WTG pass. I only realized it when I did the last stroke of an ATG pass with long strokes. To my surprise, I was equally smooth on most parts of my face as when I'd done both passes. I did a few extra strokes here and there, and get a very decent result, given the circumstances, with that one difference that I usually feel calmed instead of pissed off right after a shave. :O But that was not the fault of that ATG pass. There was a bit more pulling sensation, going directly ATG, without a WTG pass, but not so much that I noticed it over the misses yelling. And my skin was perfectly fine afterwards.

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[tat2Ralfy]

And btw the guy in the video shaves like a maniac! ...lol did you see that first pass atg on his neck! I would be sore for a week...lol

No you won't. I like this video, because it shows us so well how much one can cut the crap. About two weeks ago, I ended up in the middle of a domestic quarrel with my wife just when I was about to shave. (The quarrel was unrelated to shaving, in case you wonder). My wife has Klingon blood in here veins, so there was a lot of yelling going on. In the mean time I was trying to lather up, and strop my razor and shave my face. I got so distracted that I forgot my entire WTG pass. I only realized it when I did the last stroke of an ATG pass with long strokes. To my surprise, I was equally smooth on most parts of my face as when I'd done both passes. I did a few extra strokes here and there, and get a very decent result, given the circumstances, with that one difference that I usually feel calmed instead of pissed off right after a shave. :O But that was not the fault of that ATG pass. There was a bit more pulling sensation, going directly ATG, without a WTG pass, but not so much that I noticed it over the misses yelling. And my skin was perfectly fine afterwards.

Kind regards,
Bart.

No way? I didnt know our wifes were related...lol
ok I will try the mad Swiss Man method tonight, and see how it goes

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)

 

[Matt]

Try it, mate! :thumbup:

Devilish as it may seem, it really leaves your skin in a very good condition. My initial impression

FUCK ME!

Bollocks!

I've never seen this video before. I don't know what to say... I don't think I could shave for another 5 days after a shave like this. Or if I had anything capable of being shaved anymore at all. :

...was the same like yours. But I'm determined to improve my shaving skills and I learned that for my skin (and yours, AFAIK, can handle more) it's much better to do loooooong strokes, than series of short ones. After all, it means less blade on your skin. And if you have something wider than 5/8 there's really not much problem with too much lather on the razor.

Keep us posted!

cheers,
Matt

 

[Matt]

So Ralfy,

Have you tried the Manic Swiss Approach? B) How did it work for you?

cheers,
Matt

 

[DJKELLY]

I shaved for over 10 years starting with against the grain because I knew no one else that was using a straight to teach me and it worked because I was shaving right off Crox and thought stropping was a myth. Consequently my edge would not last the whole shave and I wanted the worst out of the way with the sharpest edge. That's why I appreciate this place so much! Later, Dennis

 

[tat2Ralfy]

Its all good
TBH I always did long strokes but atg first pass in a new one for me, and it does work :thumbup:
the only trouble I have is that it breaks up my learnt routine, and if I start with atg I sometimes lose my way through the rest of the shave...lol

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)

 

[Bart]

the only trouble I have is that it breaks up my learnt routine, and if I start with atg I sometimes lose my way through the rest of the shave...lol

I hear you, my friend. It indeed feels odd to do something differently after doing it the same way for so many times. Having the misses going verbally berserk on you while shaving sure helps.

 

[justin]

I like to watch this video every now and then for it's humbleness. I like a humble shave. This was the video that got me into straights, I like it's spirit. I remember finding it in a thread at a certain forum, and everybody was talking lots of shit about it. They were just picking at every little thing. Basically the attitude was "he shaves so confidently, he didn't prep, he cut himself three times so he don't know shit, and what's with that brush, strop...". I didn't know what to think back then, but now I know these people are the ones full of shit.

Anyway, it reminds me that what I got now is more than enough, and in the end it's all about the satisfaction of rubbing my hand across my smooth face. There's nothing quite like a good shave.

Justin