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Rolls Razor Woes

DJKELLY

Well-Known Member
I am using a Rolls Razor on the road and not having great shaves with it. Most of you know what it is, but just to be clear, it is a DE sized chunk of a Sheffield straight razor with a guard around the edge and a case that will sharpen and strop the blade with a gear gizmo that is really ingenious. Of course, I took off the guard and sharpened the blade on a coticule.

My problem is that I am getting super HHT results, but the edge will not make it to the ATG pass. It seems like it is very sharp but will not complete the shave without tugging. If I test the edge in the middle of the shave, after cleaning, it will not pass an HHT at all, but just a couple licks on my forearm will bring it up to a three at least.

Even with the tugging, the end result is excellent. No, zero, irritation, and BBS. This is serious tugging, though, and I am having to resort to a real DE. Thanks, Bill.

The Rolls has a detachable handle and stropping requires insertion of a bamboo skewer into a hole on the spine (a press fit), so it is not an easy process durnig the shave. I am using a travel hone/box I got from Urmas and stropping on a six inch strop sitting on a hone, again on Urmas' boxed travel hone. (Thanx Urbo, I love it)

I am not used to getting good HHTs and poor shaves, at all. If someone knows what is going on, I am certainly willing to listen. It is similar to a super sharp CrOx edge that will not last a shave, but I am using a clean strop.
Paunchous Pilot
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
I have only a partial clue about what a Rolls Razor looks like, but the results you describe sound to me like you have some bevel angle figuring out to do.

Kind regards,
Bart
 

Emmanuel

Well-Known Member
Me too Denny ,as Bart ,i havent experience about Rolls Razor. I have a question before share my opinion. Keeps the keenness after a shave ,tested by HHT ?
I believe that the blade looses the keenness after some contacts with your beards ,because this kind is hardened just a few tenths milim near of the edge. Now if the blade is honed many tines reached at the lower hardened place.Please test it let me know.
Looking forward to your reply.
Best regards.
Emmanuel
 

danjared

Well-Known Member
Try increasing the bevel angle. Rolls Razor blade spines are a bit raised when they are honed or stropped using the Rolls Razor case.
 

DJKELLY

Well-Known Member
I have raised the bevel angle and it hones up right away. It takes a very sharp edge but I am inclined to believe that Emmanuel might be right. I have never experienced a "case hardened" edge. When I sharpened it the last time, it seemed to lose the hht just by sitting, so I thought it might be past good steel and into softer stuff that would corrode easily. I will give the new edge a try. I have another Rolls blade with much less wear that doesn't share the problem. This one might be a very light paper weight. Thanks.
 

danjared

Well-Known Member
If you want more blades to play with, I have a couple, including one with a single blade case. I can send them with the handle too since I don't need that. Just remind me what your address is.
 

DJKELLY

Well-Known Member
That would be great Jared. 5 Heard Dr. Greenville, SC 29605. Don't tell Urmas I gave it out. D
 

DJKELLY

Well-Known Member
Just an update. I started over with the Rolls from bevel setting to finish with another very high HHT and the edge lasted only a quarter of the WTG pass. I give up on this particular blade. It has to be case hardening. I am a bit disappointed that a razor I thought was higher quality would have this flaw. I wonder if I could harden it myself with a torch. If anyone knows if it is feasible, give me the nod. Denny
 

wdwrx

Well-Known Member
Man, if it was me, I'd be googling that shit, and building a little temperature controlled chamber and giving it a try.
Got a high temp. thermometer?
:lol: :lol:
 

vgeorge

Well-Known Member
DJKELLY said:
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Denny, let me seriously ask you. Couldn't you find another nice Rolls blade? Hate to see you suffer like this and Chris all taking advantage of it despite all your dangerous work for him for decontaminating his toxic stone. I thought your Hippy friend was sending you couple.

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DJKELLY

Well-Known Member
Holy Smokes! How do you say that in Athens. Mon Dieu! at least. You have a secret you are not telling us, Emmanuel?

I just awoke to feed the evil, getmeupinthemorning cats and checked about hardening/tempering/annealing and learn that you can produce a blade. It is not necessary, Emmanuel, as Jared is sending one, I think, but if you let me pay for it, I would love to have one your made. If that is OK with you let me know and I will send the specs. Wow, I feel like Capt. Hyperbole. (Can I have a Marketplace pass?)

Thank you for your generosity, Emmanuel. Denny
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
You should send Emannuel a blade to copy, they are quite involved with the recess in the top of the spine and all, failing that you could always use a piece of a real wedge blade and fit the handle on that?

Also tempering is not that hard to do, and there is plenty of stuff on the internet about it, a home made Coffee can kiln, Mapp gass blowtorch, another coffee can filled with preheated oil, and a tray of sand in your kitchen oven should be all that you need :thumbup:

I didnt know any of the Rolls blades were case hardened? can you let me know which model of blade it is Denny?

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 

DJKELLY

Well-Known Member
I am not totally sure it is case hardened, Ralfy, but it is much more worn than others I have seen. I did the blade trigonometry and with the binder clip, it is back in the 17 degree range. Even so, a steeper angle may well fix the problem.

I would not need the complete blue print for Emmanuel for the blade as I would not use the guard, but you are right about needing a hole so I could use the chopstick trick. Upon closer inspection, the guard has a ball-detent on one side to spring load the guard so it "snaps" to each side of the blade. Again, I would not use but one hole for a honing handle.

I am not sure about the metal work. It is just not worth all the effort if other blades are available, and they are. I had the same thought about using a wedge, but I can tell you for sure, it would take a performance drill bit to put a hole in the spine after heat treating.

IMG_0052.jpg

So here is a poor picture of the blade, guard, handle and a bamboo skewer used as a handle for honing stropping. The whole system (for those not familiar with the Rolls) has a box with hone and strop and a geared gizmo that thrashes the blade into serviceable sharpness. I am sharpening it on a coticule, using the skewer to flip the blade. To the left of the blade is the modified binder clip I use in place of tape to lift the spine.
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Ah the IPhone 3GS I pressume? wait until you bite the bullet and get a 4, the camera rocks!

I thought maybe you could use a modified clip to hold a handle for honing and stropping? should you want to try a piece of blade in stead of the original Rolls one.

Also its worth noting that new blades for these often come up on Egay, so if you ever want one its worth a search, most here wont know, but I too own a pair of Rolls razors, and once done right they are not too shabby at all :thumbup:

regards
Ralfson (C.R.O.C. Closet Rolls Owners Club)
 

Emmanuel

Well-Known Member
DJKELLY said:
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If you remember Denny i said that i am coming from your large aviating family and even i am retired from Olympic Airways i have access in Olympic's machine shop equipped with metallurgical furnace and instruments measuring hardness.Is more easy to me ofcourse to send two new blades to mesure the hardness rehardening them.After this action should be to recover the edge because the very thin place will be burned .Let me know if this razor machine has system to microajust the gap between the edge and the safety bar.
Looking forward to your reply.
Best regards
Emmanuel
 

BlacknTan

Well-Known Member
Emmanuel said:
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You're a very lucky gentleman, Emmanuel. I've spent a lifetime in machine shops and find it difficult to get machine time at all! I chalk that up to the fact of Insurance and liability issues, and living in a highly litigous society. Add to that the distaste for having to ask for access to something that was always at my complete disposal, and access that I did not have the foresight to realize that someday I would lose.
I'm trying to re-equip myself to a degree now, but it will never again be like having the Cadillac of machinery at hand
 
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