Second honing attempt

[mysteryrazor]

On a razor that is sharp but not coming up the way I expect I back stone two rotations and re-hone. Both of these on the finisher.

 

[Bart]

But I'll tell you all a secret (only discovered it for the purpose of this typing this post): Take a razor that you know passes the HHT well. Confirm it. Put what's left of the hair aside for a while. Take a glass. Run the razor once, edge down with its own weight over the surface of the glass. Confirm that you no longer can shave arm hair with it. Confirm that the hair no longer shows any response. Strop the razor 60 linen/60 leather. Take your HHT hair and test again. Watch that dropping jaw.

I have tried, then 60 linen and 80 leather but my edge was only HHT 0. To go back to the previous DILUCOT edge I had to do 30 X-strokes on BBW with one rub of slurry stone and about 200 X-strokes on plain water on coticule then 60 linen/ 60 leather.
so either I still have to improve my stropping technique:
or maybe Bart made a joke

No, I wasn't joking at all. Actually, I took a razor and did what I typed, right before typing it. Yesterday, I even shaved with that razor, out of curiosity. Not the best shave ever, but no too bad either. But I insist: stropping in a largely underestimated skill, and there are too many pieces of the wrong leather pushed as "razors strops" nowadays.

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[danjared]

I'm curious about what you would consider the wrong leather (other than overwaxed latigo).

 

[Bart]

I'm curious about what you would consider the wrong leather (other than overwaxed latigo).

You've answered most part of your question.

But I've seen other leather straps as well, with a bumpy surface and uneven draw, that I don't think were Latigo leather.

I'm just not about to start naming the bad ones. But there are a couple of strops with a good reputation, coming from reliable companies/makers:

(in no particular order)
the Old Traditional strop from "The Different Scent" in Berlin.
Sadly that one comes without a fabric component.
If you can get it Tony Miller's genuine linen of 2.5" width is an excellent option to retrofit an Old Traditional with a linen strop.

The Dovo Russian 'Juchten" leather, with V-weave fabric. And excellent and affordable strop, that offers prefect results.

The Kanayama strops. Leather-wise unbeatable. The linen strap is under debate on this forum, but I think it's a matter of figuring out how to deal with its stiffness.

The SRD Premium IV English Bridle Strop. I'm specifically speaking about that type of leather, which is really on par with the Old Traditional. I personally can't find any use for the seatbelt component, so I would replace it with a proper linen.

And for a final endorsement, keep an eye on Torolf Myklebust's strops. I have not yet had the honor of trying these, but have spoken enough with this man to know that he comprehends the properties of a good leather and linen strop, better than any one I know.

Of course, there are many other perfect options, but -in my experience and opinion- there is also a considered chance to buy something not quite functional on today's strop market.

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[BlacknTan]

Smash up job, ol' chap!

These guys kept tellin' me and tellin' me: "don't be scared to use a little pressure". I'm embarrassed to tell you how long it took me to really buy into it and work the blade a bit. Once I did though, I never looked back. I'd spent so long trying to get the lightest smoothest stroke you could ever imagine, when I switched to coticule honing I had a hard time breaking that habit.

Cheers,
-Chris

This post has answered a few questions for me!
I've been experimenting with dilucot, and it's come pretty well, except for finishing. My last dilucot shaved well, but I know it could have been better, so I did 30 laps on the 12K Naniwa to see what would happen. Sure enough, noticably better... But I could not ascertain why!
When I got to the plain water finishing stage on the coticule, it seemed as though the blade was just riding on a film of water and no cutting taking place.
I keep remembering how much my edges improved on the Naniwas by using extremely light pressure, so I was transferring that methodology to the coticule.
So, what I'll attempt now is a slight bit of pressure on the coticule that is wet, but without a puddle of water on the surface.

Otherwise, I'm coming along, albeit slowly.

BTW, I won't try Unicot. I guess I have an aversion to double bevels. Nothing wrong with the system, just a personal quirk... As a kid, I always jumped in the deep end of the pool first... for better or worse!

 

[chti_lolo]

No, I wasn't joking at all

you are a kind of alien with a magical strop but I have got a latigo strop surely way overwaxed. I can't get HHT 0 from a dull on glass edge so it's already a result: and working a lot with that strop made it feel less waxy.

I've been experimenting with dilucot, and it's come pretty well, except for finishing. My last dilucot shaved well, but I know it could have been better, so I did 30 laps on the 12K Naniwa to see what would happen. Sure enough, noticably better... But I could not ascertain why!

the finishing stage of dilucot is also difficult to me. I have got only once an edge on par with UNICOT result. I have also tried ten strokes on 0.5 diamond spray on a less good dilucot edge and get something very close to UNICOT so I think I should be very close to optimal result. I too still need to improve my technique.

 

[Bart]

There is nothing wrong with using a Naniwa 12K, to boost the keenness, if you find that easier.
Try to finish that edge with 30 or 40 laps on the Coticule (water only). I used to do that with a Chosera 10K and a Coticule, and it gave me the same results as a perfect Dilucot. I personally preferred the Coticule finished edges over the naked Chosera 10K edge, that was not so easy on my skin.
Later I grew tired of soaking up the Chosera, and now it sits in my drawer, only occasionally being used for testing purposes. I know that some say these hones don't need soaking, but I can't work with my Chosera if I haven't soaked it till full saturation.

I always tried Dilucot. If it didn't work out, I turned it into a Unicot, or I soaked up the Chosera to boost keenness before finishing on the Coticule again. There comes a time you'll find yourself needing to do that less and less.

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[BlacknTan]

Thanks Bart,

It just seems like cheating to revert to the Naniwa 12K, the very stone I'm trying to leave in my past.
Unfortunately, testing goes slowly because my face will only stand one shave per day.

I've got another experiment lined up for tomorrow, and another thought for the day after.

 

[tat2Ralfy]

Sssh here's what I sometimes do, but don't tell anyone or empires could crumble lol
I give it 30 half strokes on water, then a further 30 regular x strokes, if it's still not quite there I do about a dozen strops on a balsa strop loaded with green crox, that gets it a hht 4 everytime, from there it's back to the Coticule on water for 30 x strokes to leave the edge stunningly sharp and smooth.

As Bart says I find I do this very rarely now a days, but early on it was a life saver

Regards your friend
Ralfson (Dr)

P.s if you need a balsa hone Bill p.m me

 

[wdwrx]

Say what you will about the Nani 12K, I never liked the edges but it's very easy to disguise them behind a finish on a coti and end up with a razor that shaves like a dream. I still use mine occasionaly for edges I want to pass without spending the time to nail a perfect dilucot edge ( I still never, ever, get them right the first time around). I recently used mine to polish a huge primary bevel on my meat-chopper, and then finished with a unicot edge and the visual effect was pretty cool since the N12k leaves such a mirrored finish. But it shaves like a wonderfully sharp and smooth coti edge.
I really don't like the idea of thinking of it as cheating. The end justifies the means as far as I'm concerned.

regards,
-Chris

 

[BlacknTan]

Thanks Ralfy for your kindness!

I can get a very usable edge directly off the coticule, but I know it can be better. I won't resort to pastes or sprays in the same way that I dislike going to the Naniwa 12K. My technique is there... I just have to learn the stone and apply my technique to it.
When I'm confident that I'm getting the best edge I can get off my stones alone, I'll consider taking that next step to a pasted strop. But, I figure that's a long way off.

I'm nothing if not stubborn..

But Ralfy, your kind offer is much appreciated! And I'll give your suggestion a try for Wednesday's shave... I'll let you know the outcome.

 

[tat2Ralfy]

I'll consider taking that next step to a pasted strop.

No Bill I think you misunderstood the balsa is a hone really, and I see pasted strops as a step backward not forward.

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)

 

[BlacknTan]

I gotcha Ralfy...

A flat piece of balsa with a fine abrasive applied. I first want to take an edge to the max off stones only... I told 'ya I was a hardhead!
But, right now I'm pretty happy! Followed Ralfy's advice to the letter.. 30 half strokes on water, them 30 X strokes on water. HHT beat the HHT off the Naniwa, and as good as anything I've gotten thus far. The good part is that it's very difficult to pass a HHT at all with my hair. A brand new Feather DE blade fresh out of the wrapper will not even come close.

Last shave off this razor tomorrow before moving to a different grind... Here's hoping

 

[mikromicke]

I had my first shave with a dilucot edge this morning. I also noted that I needed to do a lot more passes with water only to get a good edge. In the end I added a drop of detergent on water on the stone and after 30 passes on that I could get a 2-3 HHT. After stropping it was a solid 4 all over the edge!

The shave this morning didn't feel as good as the unicot edge but still very nice.