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Sharpening Knives

torbenbp said:
You are offcourse right..a coticule is very suited for honing knifes. ... But if I had several cotis I might consider honing my cutlery knifes on one of them.
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I think you have a valid point there. Knives will dish your coticule faster than razors. Dished coticule is fine for knives (unless one is a Puritan) but not so for razors - frequent dishing and lapping will significantly shorten the life of your coti.
 
sparq said:
torbenbp said:
You are offcourse right..a coticule is very suited for honing knifes. ... But if I had several cotis I might consider honing my cutlery knifes on one of them.
Click to expand...

I think you have a valid point there. Knives will dish your coticule faster than razors. Dished coticule is fine for knives (unless one is a Puritan) but not so for razors - frequent dishing and lapping will significantly shorten the life of your coti.
Click to expand...

I think you are overestimating this dishing effect.
Granted that a (rare) very soft Coticule that sprouts garnets at a fast rate will wear a bit faster than the average specimen, Coticules wear much slower than most synthetic hones.
Furthermore, knives are not razors. Matt321's post about using coarse stones is absolutely spot on, in my opinion. There's no point repairing edge geometry on a Coticule. It can be done quickly on a cheap coarse stone. After that your Coticule will surprise you how quickly it refines and polishes that edge.

There is no reason, for anyone who owns a Coticule, to be afraid of trying it at least once for sharpening knives. It's not as if you will be wearing a noticeable amount of rock.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
I should update this thread (since Bart recently linked to it)... I've used a coticule to sharpen knives around the house with great success. For some reason, I found my large kitchen cutlery to be easier than my folding pocket knife. My wife has been quite pleased with the results, proclaiming them better than any we've had before. I'm not really going nuts with it, but I've seen no adverse effects at all specific to the stone(s).
 
richmondesi said:
I should update this thread (since Bart recently linked to it)... I've used a coticule to sharpen knives around the house with great success. For some reason, I found my large kitchen cutlery to be easier than my folding pocket knife. My wife has been quite pleased with the results, proclaiming them better than any we've had before. I'm not really going nuts with it, but I've seen no adverse effects at all specific to the stone(s).
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Hi Paul, I have been sharpening semiprofessionally for over thirty years. All of the above will work fine. If your wife is a scientific sort, she will love the old '70s, I think, book "The Razor's Edge" by Jon Janacek. Precise angles are not that important, but consistently finding the edge is. He suggests using a guide, but I believe with a little practice, anyone can master the art. As has been said, use a very coarse stone or diamond plate for initial bevel setting at the LOWEST angle you can stand. He even suggests ruining the surface of the blade on the least acute ground blades. I don't go that far on nice, thick blades because it can take a lot of time offhand. Machines are great if you have them for this initial bevel setting. And, like all have said, get a burr across the length of the edge. Work one side and then do the other till the burr transfers.

Here is his trick (not really a trick, Unicot)--after setting the bevel on the coarsest stone/plate/machine, go to you finest stone, not necessarily a coticule but they work fine, and raise the back of the blade until it is perceptible to YOU. It can be quite a bit higher than the initial bevel. Then just do the X strokes as has been suggested and it will take only a dozen or so a side if you are hitting the edge.

You can maintain you edge for over a year with a good ceramic stick. I use a Russell's but many good ones are out there, including Kyocera, Case, etc. Just get a quality rod because there are lousy ones out there. You can feel them bite the edge when you try them out before purchase. A diamond rod will also work especially after it is worn in a little bit. Just lean the rod on a surface at the angle you made the secondary bevel and "slice off" a piece of the rod with the blade parallel to the surface, double the angle if you are leaning it on a surface to get the other side. It does take a little practice with a steel or ceramic rod, but it is very easy after you get the knack. You can tell when you are on the cutting edge by the bite or sound and if you go too high with it, it will just need to be stoned a little earlier.

This method will keep a knife sharp enough to slice notebook or magazine paper with no problem at all. Shaving arm hair is too precious. Talk about none left.

Many times with a very very fine stone, including a coticule, the knife will not feel sharp after the dozen X strokes. Be not deterred, my friend. Just give it 5 laps on any strop (I use an old webbed tool belt) and it will be scary sharp. And, again, if she doesn't cut on a plate, you can maintain that edge almost indefinitely with the ceramic rod.

Sorry for rambling. Finally something I can help with. Your friend, Denny
 
I thought I'd chime in. I have a mixed bag of kitchen knives, some as old as my razors...

I'm pretty sure many of you have unused barber hones in the closet, the ones that just don't seem to be in shape for razors, binding issues, just ugly... I tested a barber hone last year and found it to be no longer trustworthy for razors, so I put it in the kitchen and have been using it as a touch up stone for my kitchen knives. I hold it in my hand and do half-strokes. It's good while I'm cooking and quick, but as you can imagine, is only effective before any real dulling has taken place. So, I guess I use it much like a steel, but it is a little more effective. (it is a 6" narrow stone so quite comfortable to use this way)

For kicks, I used a Shumate barber's hone last week. Unbelievable! Super fast and fine for knives. I mean really super fast. I won't be using it for knives since it is still perfectly good for razors, but it was eye opening.

regards,
Torolf
 
TM280 said:
I thought I'd chime in. I have a mixed bag of kitchen knives, some as old as my razors...

I'm pretty sure many of you have unused barber hones in the closet, the ones that just don't seem to be in shape for razors, binding issues, just ugly... I tested a barber hone last year and found it to be no longer trustworthy for razors, so I put it in the kitchen and have been using it as a touch up stone for my kitchen knives. I hold it in my hand and do half-strokes. It's good while I'm cooking and quick, but as you can imagine, is only effective before any real dulling has taken place. So, I guess I use it much like a steel, but it is a little more effective. (it is a 6" narrow stone so quite comfortable to use this way)

For kicks, I used a Shumate barber's hone last week. Unbelievable! Super fast and fine for knives. I mean really super fast. I won't be using it for knives since it is still perfectly good for razors, but it was eye opening.

regards,
Torolf
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My experience is exactly that too Torolf, I have a "OVB" 2 sided barbers hone that I keep for playing with on razors, but my "Boss" never came up trumps with any of my razors, now I use it for our kitchen knives, wet from the tap with a drop of washing up soap, 30 quick half strokes each side and they are scary sharp :thumbup:

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 
richmondesi said:
Thanks Denny :w00t:
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I forgot to mention, Paul, that with a beginner, the magic marker trick is very handy. You can easily tell exactly where you honing angle is hitting the edge. With a factory edge, it can take quite a while to reset their horrible bevel. Then when you have the bevel set, inking it up again will give you confidence that you are hitting the actual edge when you raise the back of the blade. Go, girl, go! Denny
 
Bart said:
Done. If your angle consistency is any good, you should be able to shave arm hair, but if not, the edge should still be good enough for decent kitchen-service. And by that, I mean that you can slice a tomato by throwing it at the edge.




Kind regards,
Bart.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Bart, now you have me obsessing about the FTT: Flying Tomato Test! Even though I was already implementing the modified FTT (holding the tomato in the air above the cutting board and slicing through) with great success, now I have a whole new benchmark to achieve :D

My only real worries are standardizing my tomatoes...if I should wash them first...slightly damp...launching from the stem end...and then there is the whole controlling-for-spin factor...:confused:

regards,
Torolf
 
I prefer cherry tomatoes, that have fallen off the vine one day prior, launched from a home-made "tomatoe cannon" with three drops of lighter fluid (Zippo only) from 2.7 meters. This method separates good blades from bad, and , of course, tomatoes.
:w00t: Denny
p.s. Get back to the bench, Torolf.
 
Wow, talk amateur.
That was only one cut in approximately 30 cm.
I usually consider it a failure unless I can complete 8; clean, even 3 mm cuts per 30 cm of flight.
I really hope that people would stop posting these wannabe videos and only post once they have truly mastered the art of aerobatic cutulature. If I only cared enough about these people wasting the oxygen on my planet to teach them the ways of a proper master.
Heck today for lunch I dropped a live chicken from the height of my head and by the time it reached the floor it had laid the eggs, I planted and harvested the corn, I made an egg wash and cornbreading, then scared the chicken with my chinese cleaver so bad it died and molted before butchering itself, I then just passed the blade by the chicken where it cut through the air with such precision that the wind speed butterflied the chicken and spilled the wash and breading all over the chicken, then the raw power from my popeye like physique cooked the chicken and formed a perfect plate from the extra breading and egg wash.
 
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