smoothness

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
using dilucot method i have several DA one i had weeks ago and one from bart as a bench mark.

I just don't seem to be able to get the smoothness that bart can from the same DA'

I get a crispier edge i'm going to keep at it on these da untill i can but any little tips bart that you can give me or any one else may help.

I respect that you are a true master and its down to your experiance. I can use my issards or cr ox and it adds that extra smoothness somtimes but i realy would rather achieve this direct from the hone. I think it would be good for every one to have a razor honed by bart it gives you a good bench mark
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Gary,

I can't offer much more than the tips I've already mentioned before.
Since most of my blinded honing experiments during the last 2 years have been done on 2 groups of 4 double arrows, I have honed Double Arrows countless times. So it's safe to assume that I have a pretty good feel for them.

But for all razors I hone including Double Arrows, I do as I already described in
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(and other) posts.
If I'm not convinced I've hit maximum keenness, I just start playing with the different variations described in the other post, till the edge start bouncing back and forth between HHT-2 and HHT-3. I don't go to the strop before I'm absolutely sure I've hit the best.

There's really no other secret.

Bart.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
I realy took my time to day on dilucot method and i have to say i am hitting catch and pop very easily on say a grey coarser hair from my pot if thats all good i go and try a non grey hair but medium in texture and i can normaly and did just catch and pop after stropping these same hairs fly of the razor but when i tryed an ultra fine hair and i mean fine your razor just managed mine was having none of it. This is what makes me think somthing is not quite there even though the razor will easily shave and did as i trtyed it on not much growth. i get the same results every time not aproblem if i'd never had somthing to compare then i would think this is normal . How many sets of 50 are you doing bart i'm starting with 30 and then find my self somtimes doing 4 sets of 50 or so. Do you literaly dilute untill there is absalutly no slurry at all.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
I generally dilute till the hone has lost most of his abrasive feel.
I always rinse the hone in two stages: first rinse, I rinse the hone and razor without rubbing them clean. Next rinse, while under the running tap, I rub the Coticule and the razeor with my hands to clean it well. It makes a distinct difference.
I don't really count laps, but I guess I perform in between 50 and 100 laps on each rinse. After that, I check with the HHT for the first time. In a lot of cases I'm satisfied and proceed to stropping. I don't have a magical strop, but stropping is an underestimated skill, imho.
When I'm not satisfied, I rub the hone once, maybe twice, with a slurry stone, and do more laps. If still not satisfied, I do all the little variations out of the linked post, continuously testing with the HHT.

My edges usually don't pop very fine hairs well, before I have stropped them well. Recently, because I was playing with a hemp fabric for a "linen" strop, I have assessed results off the linen and off the leather separately. On my best linen (The V-weave on the Dovo Russian), the edge improves approximately halfway on the linen and the rest on the leather. (The hemp doesn't offer the same performance gain, but the leather still seems to take it from there).


Kind regards,
Bart.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
i've found linen realy helps i tryed smooth cotton and my linen defanatley improves hht by far.

my smooth cotton does not for some reason. so i'm stiking with tm linen not so sure about the latigo as it tends to grab my razor and it feels like it causes to much pressure on the edge and as i no you mentioned before it causes a suking with the amount of draw that is produced.

but having said that i stropped your razor with that and the edge was still all good so may be not a problem. To be fair the results are great i'm very happy with dilucot method that is the one for me. I supose we always want to get the upmost so long as i get a shave that does'nt iritate my face or pull and drag i'm more than happy.cheers bart
 

justin

Well-Known Member
Bart said:
I always rinse the hone in two stages: first rinse, I rinse the hone and razor without rubbing them clean. Next rinse, while under the running tap, I rub the Coticule and the razeor with my hands to clean it well. It makes a distinct difference.
I also do this, and I definitely notice a difference in the ease of reaching keenness. I'll do maybe 25-50 laps with the 'hidden' slurry, then rinse and repeat. If I'm doing Unicot, I have no problem reaching sufficient keenness in 50 laps or maybe even less :blink: .

Bart said:
I don't have a magical strop, but stropping is an underestimated skill, imho.
When I'm not satisfied, I rub the hone once, maybe twice, with a slurry stone, and do more laps. If still not satisfied, I do all the little variations out of the linked post, continuously testing with the HHT.

My edges usually don't pop very fine hairs well, before I have stropped them well. Recently, because I was playing with a hemp fabric for a "linen" strop, I have assessed results off the linen and off the leather separately. On my best linen (The V-weave on the Dovo Russian), the edge improves approximately halfway on the linen and the rest on the leather. (The hemp doesn't offer the same performance gain, but the leather still seems to take it from there).
Yes, stropping is really underestimated, and something I take particular interest in. The linen on this Kanayama is very interesting. Justin scratches his chin, and glances over at the Kanayama.

Justin
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
justin said:
Yes, stropping is really underestimated, and something I take particular interest in. The linen on this Kanayama is very interesting. Justin scratches his chin, and glances over at the Kanayama.
I'm in the Market for a new linen. My favorite linen is on my Dovo Russian Strop, but that one is considerably shorter than TheDifferentScent's Old Traditional Strop, which is my main strop. As my stroke is getting used to the longer Old Traditional, I have flipped the blade on top of the leather fixture of the linen on a couple of instances. A practice that's very efficient to fold part of the edge.:cry: Luckily so far, I've only done that on Double Arrows. But I definitely need a *longer* linen.
I need to follow up my "hemp-thread", but unless I have final success with sanding the fabric, it's no good (I've been testing it). That is a pity, because it had the perfect width, and I could buy it off the roll.

My question is: what exactly makes the linen on the Kanayama so "interesting", Justin?

Best regards,
Bart.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
bart why don't you ask tm to make you a linen strop[ to your size i realy recomend or i'm going away for a month i can unscrew mine and send it to you for the month you can try it see if you like it
 

justin

Well-Known Member
It's a masterpiece in craftsmanship, just like the leather, or maybe even more so. I can't imagine what it took to get it to the point that it's at now, let alone imagine it being made by hand. I have to say I am pretty intimidated by this strop. It's very stout. The weave can be described as...well, I have no idea. It's very tightly woven, and I mean VERY. So much so that it's hard to the touch of the razor, it makes a knocking sound when tapped with the spine. Stropping on it creates an intense 'zinging' sound, along with the 'scraping' (for lack of a better word) of the edge. I didn't really like it at first, but I'm really starting to like the feel, and sound of it.

I'm having a hard time assessing it. The first time that I used it I didn't see an improvement in the HHT (straight after honing). Maybe it was even worse. Regardless, the razor shaved well. I've been trying to be as light as possible, and there has been some improvement in the HHT. I think the shave might have been a little smoother too. I think I need to break it in before I can say anything about it, and I haven't been using it long enough to judge edge longevity.

They come in 66cm for 2800 yen. Might be worth a try.

xmas077.jpg
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
justin said:
I'm having a hard time assessing it. The first time that I used it I didn't see an improvement in the HHT (straight after honing). Maybe it was even worse. Regardless, the razor shaved well. I've been trying to be as light as possible, and there has been some improvement in the HHT. I think the shave might have been a little smoother too. I think I need to break it in before I can say anything about it, and I haven't been using it long enough to judge edge longevity.

They come in 66cm for 2800 yen. Might be worth a try.
Thanks Justin.
The fact that the linen is described as being "hard", is what worries me a bit.
When you're talking about the HHT-assessment, are you talking about the linen only, or does the strop also has a leather side? Did you assess after stropping on both surfaces, or after using only the linen?

Best regards,
Bart.
 

justin

Well-Known Member
Bart said:
justin said:
I'm having a hard time assessing it. The first time that I used it I didn't see an improvement in the HHT (straight after honing). Maybe it was even worse. Regardless, the razor shaved well. I've been trying to be as light as possible, and there has been some improvement in the HHT. I think the shave might have been a little smoother too. I think I need to break it in before I can say anything about it, and I haven't been using it long enough to judge edge longevity.

They come in 66cm for 2800 yen. Might be worth a try.
Thanks Justin.
The fact that the linen is described as being "hard", is what worries me a bit.
When you're talking about the HHT-assessment, are you talking about the linen only, or does the strop also has a leather side? Did you assess after stropping on both surfaces, or after using only the linen?

Best regards,
Bart.
Yes. I too am not so sure about the hardness. The HHT I described above is after the linen and before leather. Just now, I gave it maybe 60 laps on the linen. HHT - not popping this one hair. Stropped on the leather 70-100 laps, now it's popping the hair silently. Other times I've had the razor popping hairs after the linen. It's very strange. Maybe the hardness of the linen exaggerates my inexperienced stropping technique. I'm going to pick out a razor and give it a ton of laps on the linen (few-several thousand?). Hopefully that will soften the strop up a bit, and it will be interesting to see how the edge develops.

Justin
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
justin said:
Yes. I too am not so sure about the hardness. The HHT I described above is after the linen and before leather. Just now, I gave it maybe 60 laps on the linen. HHT - not popping this one hair. Stropped on the leather 70-100 laps, now it's popping the hair silently. Other times I've had the razor popping hairs after the linen. It's very strange. Maybe the hardness of the linen exaggerates my inexperienced stropping technique. I'm going to pick out a razor and give it a ton of laps on the linen (few-several thousand?). Hopefully that will soften the strop up a bit, and it will be interesting to see how the edge develops.

Justin
You could dress the linen with Dovo white paste, its non abrasive and just conditions the cloth, I used it on mine and its in tip top condition after months of hard work
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Thanks, Justin.

Ralfy, I'm not too fond of rubbing anything on a strop. I've had perfect results of my strops so far without it. I'm not saying Dovo's white paste is bad stuff. Maybe they even rub it into their linen strops at the factory. Perhaps Gary knows?

Bart.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
I've got 8 more dovo strops being deliverd the ones previous were defanatly not treated.

i have a paladium strop i wanted to try one out the leather is very similar to dovo. Now the canvas side is a little more like hemp and feels harder than my linen and the dovo backing which i find the best canvas in feel softness i just loved the whole feel. I always check hht after canvas stropping of my paldium canvas hht no where neaar it should be i switched to my tm linen and i'm passing hht as if i'd stropped on leather that is why i swear by tm linen now tm smooth cotton does'nt work so its linen for me .i have put TI paste on my paladium canvas and it works a treat so no waste there. i may try white dovo paste on my tm smooth cotton.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
If any one wants a new dovo i have 3 short ones aprox over hall L 20 inch and the dovo strop that has padded handles and is longer at 25 inch let me no i will do them for a fair price. they bare listed on invisable edge for 54 and 62 i will do much cheaper than that i also have a dovo special and two dovo ebony s astral model brand new.
 

Smythe

Well-Known Member
garyhaywood said:
If any one wants a new dovo i have 3 short ones aprox over hall L 20 inch and the dovo strop that has padded handles and is longer at 25 inch let me no i will do them for a fair price. they bare listed on invisable edge for 54 and 62 i will do much cheaper than that i also have a dovo special and two dovo ebony s astral model brand new.
Throw them in the marketplace... that reminds me I may throw in a few of my blades too.
 

Paul

Well-Known Member
Bart,

Have you tried Tony Miller's real linen? It's fantastic! If you get a chance, I think you'd really enjoy it

Cheers,
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Thanks Paul,

Gary recommended it too, a few days ago.
I might take your advice.

Bart.
 

justin

Well-Known Member
Figured I'd post and update for anyone who cares. The Kanayama linen is starting to 'break-in'. HHT after the linen (before leather) kicks ass now. I'm going on 10-14 shaves now and the razor isn't close to letting up. I'm going to keep shaving with this razor till it needs a touch up, or I give up. :lol: I don't think I can shave with the same razor for months.

Justin
 
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