Still working on it

Aquanin

Well-Known Member
Still haven't gotten a super smooth shave off my coti yet. But I have been taking the same razor back to the hone several times now. Last night, I got, what looked like an amazing dilucot edge uder the microscope, super shiny and no microchipping. But lo and behold, half the blade didnt cut anything. So, while I know I can polish the heck out of an edge with the coti, my bevel setting skills are terrible on it. Any tips? Do I need to work it more with heavy slurry before starting to dilute?
 

Smythe

Well-Known Member
Try setting the bevel on a courser stone (such as, the fine side of an ordinary SIC sharpening stone) until it cuts arm hair with ease... then finish on the Coticule.

Edit: Details: Put a bit of tape on the spine when using the course stone, replace the tape if the stone cuts through to the spine. Concentrate on the less-sharp parts of the edge until it the whole edge is evenly sharp. Then with fresh tape, hone lightly until the stone cuts through the tape for the last time, them remove the tape and finish on the Coticule with slurry... then polish with water.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
I would suggest
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If you don't trust your Coticule to set the bevel (although I've set a bevel on every Coticule in the Vault -minus 2- so far), use your favorite 1K synthetic to do it first. Then, start with Unicot from the very start. Yes, run that razor over a glass bottle. Regardless the Coticule, it should not take you more than 3 minutes to get it to shave arm hair again. It will be that fast, because you only need to undo that one dulling stroke. All other possible issues should have been dealt with earlier on. Nonetheless, it will at least confirm that you, and your Coticule, are operating within normal parameters, and the resulting bevel will carry none of the jaggedness often found after a 1K hone. I know a lot of people find the "predulling" part awkward, but I beg you to trust me at least this far.

Once the razor shaves arm hair along the entire edge, go ahead and take it through Dilucot. Even if it fails to deliver the kind of keenness required to really unleash the smoothness benefits of a Coticule, you'll end up with the "best" bevel you've ever put on a razor. "Best", in terms of absence of deep scratches and micro jaggedness at the very edge.

At that point, the taped stages of Unicot are the way to go. If it's any consolation, that is exactly what I do, when Dilucot fails me. It used to be 9 out of 10. Nowadays it's 1 out of 10. As Ralfson pointed out in another thread today, beware of doing too many laps at step5. 30 laps on very thin, watery slurry is all it takes. If you do too many or use too dense a slurry, the secondary bevel will grow too large and/or become to dull to take ample keenness during the final step with just water on the Coticule.

Please keep us posted,

Bart.
 

sparq

Active Member
Aquanin said:
Any tips? Do I need to work it more with heavy slurry before starting to dilute?
Chances are, you are doing a great polishing job on a wrong part of your blade. Have you tried the (black) marker test?
 

Aquanin

Well-Known Member
Been busy lately but I finally got a change to hone last night on the coti and test shave this morning. I finally see the light. Wow, that was smooth. The entire blade wasnt perfect (better at the heel than the toe) but it's getting there. Under the scope the heel had a very smooth bevel but the toe I could still see the sandblasted pattern. It could be that the blade is slightly warped though but I cant tell. Anyways, I thought I would update you on my progress.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Thank you for the update, Aquanin.

It sound like you are talking about Dilucot, right? I also presume that the entire blade shaves decently, albeit some parts, notably the tip part, no as well as the rest? If so, there's always the opportunity to give the hone 2 or 4 rubs with the slurry stone and take it back to water from there. There is no harm in doing a number of shorter stroke on the tip half of the blade. I would always do a few strokes on the full length of the blade, before moving on to the next dilution or finishing.
Keep the slurry well hydrated.

As you said yourself, you're nearly home. :thumbup:

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

Matt

Well-Known Member
Great, Aquanin. :) :thumbup: Really nice to hear from people that are at the similar progress stage - keep on doing a good job!

cheers,
Matt
 

Aquanin

Well-Known Member
It sound like you are talking about Dilucot, right? I also presume that the entire blade shaves decently, albeit some parts, notably the tip part, no as well as the rest? If so, there's always the opportunity to give the hone 2 or 4 rubs with the slurry stone and take it back to water from there. There is no harm in doing a number of shorter stroke on the tip half of the blade. I would always do a few strokes on the full length of the blade, before moving on to the next dilution or finishing.
Keep the slurry well hydrated.
Thats exactly what I mean. Yes Dilucot, and the blade shaves well, but the heel is really amazing, even compared to my synthetic hones. I will try what you suggested. Thanks everyone for the encouragement. It is pretty different that honing on big synthetics but it looks like the results are going to be worth it.
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Aquanin said:
but the heel is really amazing, even compared to my synthetic hones.
:blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:
Bwhahahahahaha
Sorry couldnt help myself

Best wishes and keep up the good work, it looks like you are starting to see what all the fuss is about :thumbup:
Ralfson (Dr)
 

Aquanin

Well-Known Member
Grr.. I need a faster coti. This La Grise puts a good edge but it is really pretty slow. What should I look for for a faster one?
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Aquanin said:
Grr.. I need a faster coti. This La Grise puts a good edge but it is really pretty slow. What should I look for for a faster one?
It only makes sense to look for a faster on if you want to speed up bevel correction work. For the rest of a honing job, it won't matter much.

That said: on the faster side of the Coticule spectrum you'll find: all "La Petite Blanches", all "La Veinettes", all "La Grosse Blanches", all "Les Latneuses", the fast side of La Nouvelle Veine, the fast side of La Dressante.
Most vintage Coticules of the "higher" quality grades are fast as well.

On the slower side are "La Grosse Jaune", the slow side of "La Dressante", the slow side of "La Nouvelle Veine"

"La Grise" and "La Verte" vary from medium slow to medium fast.

Very slow: "La Veine aux Clous"

There are other layers, but they're currently not excavated, so I have not been able to collect data, except on a small piece of "Les Petas", which was quite fast.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Well all of mine seem quite fast to me, I have however got a La Petite Blanche, a La Veinette, a Les Latneuses, and a vintage coticule that appears to be of a high grade.
Did I strike it lucky??

Best regards
Ralfson (Dr)
 

Aquanin

Well-Known Member
Progress Update.

Things getting better every time I hone. I still get some small microchipping it seems and I cannot figure out why. Maybe too much pressure still. I relapped and rounded the edges again just to make sure. Any reason I would still be getting microchipping?

This coti is very slow too. It takes a whiel to get the slurry to darken...and it never gets even close to Bart's video, only gets slightly darker.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
Aquanin said:
Progress Update.

Things getting better every time I hone. I still get some small microchipping it seems and I cannot figure out why. Maybe too much pressure still. I relapped and rounded the edges again just to make sure. Any reason I would still be getting microchipping?

This coti is very slow too. It takes a whiel to get the slurry to darken...and it never gets even close to Bart's video, only gets slightly darker.
Microchipping is very atypical for a Coticule. It simply should not happen. You've been around other hones enough not to crash into the side edge of the hone, and I can't imagine you would go so overboard on pressure, that it would become a problem. Coticules are rather pressure-friendly.

That leaves 2 possibilities: the razor or the hone.

The razor: some have very brittle steel. Thiers Issards are among my favorite razors, but they do have this tendency to chip. Atlhoug this happens during the first shave and I haven't seen it immediately after honing , not after the first stropping. (All razors I hone are inspected with maginification, post honing, post stropping and post 1st shave) Adding 2 layers of tape to the spine, which augments the bevel angle 1.5 - 2 degrees, has always fixed that problem for me.

I figure you have spotted this micro-shipping issue with several different razors, which practically rules it out as a possible culprit.

That leaves us with the second possibility. You know the famous quote by Sherlock Holmes: "When you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth". Hence we must consider the Coticule.

I know for fact that Ardennes takes great care to inspect the Coticules and rule out possible problematic behavior as much as humanly possible. During my last visit, I saw some Coticules laying aside, perfect sizes, ready to be cut into smaller bouts or even slurry stones, only because they showed some signs of possible problematic spots. These parts were to be trimmed off. I am almost sure I could have saved some of these whetstones from their sad destiny, by giving them a fair chance during a test. Maurice told me they couldn't be bothered. It would take too much time to do that kind of testing, and what if a slighty problematic spot became worse a bit deeper into the stone? They have a very simple policy for returning goods: if a customer is not happy, he can send his hone back and they ship another one. Even when it's bought at a reseller. No questions asked. That's their idea of standing behind their product. It would not be in their interest to sell dysfunctional Coticules.
But, they don't hone a razor on each Coticule they sell and inspect the edge with a microscope. "Most unlikely" does not equal "impossible".

Here's what I propose. If you can rule out the possibility of a "chip-prone" razor, I can arrange for you to be the first participant of our new "Hone on loan" program. I will be starting a thread about that initiative one of the next days.
You will receive a Coticule with a proven record that you can try for a month or so. Plenty of time to compare it against your own specimen. Please let me know when interested.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

Aquanin

Well-Known Member
I would be very interested!! I have tried the hone on several razors and I continue to have the problem. I have honed a bunch of razors. At one point I was honing more than one a day (which is not alot for some of the hinemeisters) on synthetic stones and have never had complaints about my edges. I am getting good shaves off the coti but I know they can get better. I would love to try out another stone. Let me know when this starts up. Sounds like a great idea. Thank you.
 
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