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Thiers Issard

king

Well-Known Member
Please look at those photos:
[img=800]http://s2.pticica.com/foto/0001017026_l_0_5akby1.jpg[/img]

[img=800]http://s2.pticica.com/foto/0001017027_l_0_rlvxvw.jpg[/img]

That is TI straight razor that I bought few months ago. It was near shave ready and just few strokes on finishing hone brings it up. The razor provides reasonable shaves. It has smiling edge, 5/8, also it was advertised as full hollow but I do not think that's 100% true.
So, my question is do you think that bevel is little bit wide and is there any need to make it narrower and which way to do that????
Thx
 
G

Guest

That bevel looks a bit wide, indeed. I have a similar razor (produced by a self-inflicted honing accident - mental note to self, practise honing with razors you do not have a close relationship with), and it shaves just as well, so I consider the bevel a cosmetic issue.

As for hollowness, you might find this chart useful. This is the so called Henckels chart, according to which Henckels Zwillingswerk rated the hollowness of its razors.


Regards,
Robin
 

king

Well-Known Member
I am familiar with above chart but it is little bit confused to me so I used down chart:

[img=800]http://s2.pticica.com/foto/0000866611_l_0_n28zen.jpg[/img]

By above chart my razor is half hollow.
 

Bart

Well-Known Member
There is nothing wrong with that razor.

The cutting bevel is shaped by only 2 variables: the bevel angle and the thickness of the steel at the base of the bevel. If the steel is thicker, than the bevel sides will be wider. That's why wedges have the widest bevels and full hollow razor the narrowest.

The bevel angle itself fixed by the thickness of the spine and the width of the blade. The only way to alter it, is to change the thickness of the spine by adding multiple layers of tape to beef it up. But that is something I only recommend on wedges, where the bevel width can really run out of hand without using 2 or 3 layers of tape. But there's also one particular brand that I nearly always hone with tape: Thiers Issard. :) More about that in a minute.

It is possible to have an asymmetric bevel, with one side too narrow and the other too wide. If that's the case, it can be counteracted by giving the narrow side more attention while sharpening than the wide side. Over the course of several sharpening jobs, the situation will gradually correct itself. If has no significance for the way a razor shaves, unless once side of the bevel is so small that it is practically non-existent.

Thiers Issards can provide astonishing shaves, when honed well. But their steel tends to be very brittle. I think they're designed to be sharpened with TI's pasted strop. Due to cushioning of the leather, a pasted strop always gives a bit of a convex bevel shape. Convex means that the bevel has a varying angle that becomes steeper near the very edge. With hones, that have no cushion effect, we can only match that by adding tape on the spine, which also steepens the bevel angle that tiny bit. In practice, I take the TI's through the
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, starting out with 1 layer of tape and adding a second for the "taped stages" of Unicot system.

Alternatively, you can opt for the
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, and have one of the Coticule.be experts check it out.

Kind regards,
Bart.
 

king

Well-Known Member
Thx Bart.
The bevel width is the same both sides.
I was little bit confused when I recive this razor (as I said it was advertised as "Extra Hollow" and I expect bevel like on my "Singing Dovo", almost invisible, but now when I know that TI is not "Extra Hollow" the things are clear + spine thickness etc...etc).
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
i've had one or two Ti's and i noticed there bevel can and have been a little wider than i expected. most of the dovos i get are very tiny bevels.infact i sent my ti back as i did'nt like the bevel on one ti , as it was wide and a little fatter in the middle , it was only cosmetic . i just did'nt like it as the razor was a brand new one.
 

Deckard

Well-Known Member
If the bevel width is the same both sides, then an option is further hollow grinding to thin out the blade,this will work. I don't think that would be an option, I'm not sure if a wide bevel has any disadvantages other than more metal removal required when honing.
 

Smythe

Well-Known Member
It is wide because at the factory they “buffed” the blade to mirror. When buffing near the edge, will produce a sever convex (rounded) edge. So when the blade is sharpened, the hone has to cut away material through the convex in a straight line, till the edge is registered with the spine…
… only sounds more complicated than it really is.

There is almost nothing you can do to get the bevels smaller (short of using tape around the spine... or re-grinding it). Your blade is probably just fine and should shave well… it’s just cosmetic.
 

garyhaywood

Well-Known Member
as above says all the new ti's i have just got were highly buffed bevels. , one thing with ti is the bevels never are perfect , mine had to be rehoned the regain bevel . and all the bevels had some width and odd bellying to an extent. i just sent one back it looked like it had been honed a 100 times it was terible.

gary

ps they still shave exceptionaly well.
 

Woodash

Well-Known Member
Smythe said:
It is wide because at the factory they “buffed” the blade to mirror. When buffing near the edge, will produce a sever convex (rounded) edge. So when the blade is sharpened, the hone has to cut away material through the convex in a straight line, till the edge is registered with the spine…
… only sounds more complicated than it really is.

There is almost nothing you can do to get the bevels smaller (short of using tape around the spine... or re-grinding it). Your blade is probably just fine and should shave well… it’s just cosmetic.
Not only that, but this polished 'edge' often extends (toward the spine) beyond where the normal bevel would be, as dictated by blade geometry. We had a brief discussion about this a while back (in fact, with this guy ^ posting right above me ;) ). The result is that when you hone it after it comes from the factory, it starts trying to form a new (steeper, but correct) bevel trying to form on top of the old. It's not a problem, but it's weird.
 
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