Thoughts on hone flatness

[Deckard]

With my synthetic hones I will lap them almost everytime I use them, which isn't very often these days.
I was wondering what your thoughts on flatness are for coticules as I find they don't wear very much especially my harder La Grise. It also is not a good feeling for me watching so much slurry going down the sink:scared: .
How necessary is it to have a perfectly flat stone all the while do you think?
Will be interested to know your opinions.

Joe

 

[jfdupuis]

For some reason, I find that I have an easier time creating slurry with a freshly lapped coticule. I don't know if it's because I get a better 'suction' but it seems to work that way.

 

[tat2Ralfy]

You will mostly only ever need to need to lap your Coticule a few times in your lifetime, being totally flat is not absolutely necessary.

JF you will most likely find that you can raise slurry easily without lapping by simply tipping your slurry stone slightly so that it is touching your hone with more of its edge, there is no reason that you will need to lap your stone in order to make it easier to raise slurry, its just a waste.

Regards
Ralfson (Dr)

 

[Bart]

http://www.coticule.be/faq-reader/items/how-often-do-i-need-to-lap-my-coticule.html

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[urmas]

For some reason, I find that I have an easier time creating slurry with a freshly lapped coticule. I don't know if it's because I get a better 'suction' but it seems to work that way.

This is exactly what I found - easier to create slurry and better suction... but not only.

I assume that coticules are not completely homogeneous and they contains harder grid or matrix within them. That harder grid exposes after rubbing with slurry stone. But try to rise a slurry with DMT mini hone and you will experience a different coticule. When you do so then the surface of the coticule is smoother - you can clearly feel it from razor feedback. But there is one more interesting aspect - I think that this smoother surface is altering coticule honing properties and even may turn your engaging finisher to mellow finisher, when it is used at the end of dilution process.

Regards,
Urmas

 

[Bart]

Allow me to respectfully disagree with the above statement.

Quite a while ago,I've tried if different levels of surface finish influenced the properties of a Coticule. I saw a Coticule at a guy who collect minerals. Most of these collectors polish up there stones to a high luster. I never thought it would have been possible with a Coticule. When I got home, I took one of my own stone to my jewelry lath and polished it as high as I could. I finished one of my set of identical test razors on it. I rubbed a slurry (lost the polish) and Dilucotted a second one. Then I sanded the stone with 40 grit sandpaper and I dilucotted a third razor. I found only one variable to change was the draw and the auditive feedback, but not as much as I expected. The test shave with the razors did not reveal any significant difference.

By the way, all Coticules in the Vault are tested in the state they come from Ardennes, usually with the scratch marks of their coarse lapping plate still present. Sometimes I do some work to chamfer the edges a bit better, if it bothers me while honing. I have not found any indication that the edge qualifications (brisk, engaging, mellow) are influenced by the surface condition of the whetstone.

After some use, a Coticule becomes finished to its natural finish left by the abrasive action of the slurry stone. I personally see no reason to force that process by lapping out Ardennes scratch marks.


Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[Tok]

For some reason, I find that I have an easier time creating slurry with a freshly lapped coticule. I don't know if it's because I get a better 'suction' but it seems to work that way.

Maybe, it is because the stone has some peaks after lapping that are turned into slurry more rapidly, because of the smaller surface (Is it clear, what I mean?).

Regards,
Tok

 

[DJKELLY]

Allow me to respectfully disagree with the above statement.

Quite a while ago,I've tried if different levels of surface finish influenced the properties of a Coticule. I saw a Coticule at a guy who collect minerals. Most of these collectors polish up there stones to a high luster. I never thought it would have been possible with a Coticule. When I got home, I took one of my own stone to my jewelry lath and polished it as high as I could. I finished one of my set of identical test razors on it. I rubbed a slurry (lost the polish) and Dilucotted a second one. Then I sanded the stone with 40 grit sandpaper and I dilucotted a third razor. I found only one variable to change was the draw and the auditive feedback, but not as much as I expected. The test shave with the razors did not reveal any significant difference.

By the way, all Coticules in the Vault are tested in the state they come from Ardennes, usually with the scratch marks of their coarse lapping plate still present. Sometimes I do some work to chamfer the edges a bit better, if it bothers me while honing. I have not found any indication that the edge qualifications (brisk, engaging, mellow) are influenced by the surface condition of the whetstone.

After some use, a Coticule becomes finished to its natural finish left by the abrasive action of the slurry stone. I personally see no reason to force that process by lapping out Ardennes scratch marks.


Kind regards,
Bart.

I don't see how you could be wrong, Bart. As long as the furrows or gouges or valleys in the surface of the stone are not the perfect size to allow the moving blade to tip, edge first into the furrow and strike the edge, a rippled surface has no effect on the finish. It just makes a little less of the surface availabe for abrasion--another negligible effect. We pick out inclusions all the time without negative consequences. YP, Denny

 

[Bart]

I don't see how you could be wrong, Bart. As long as the furrows or gouges or valleys in the surface of the stone are not the perfect size to allow the moving blade to tip, edge first into the furrow and strike the edge, a rippled surface has no effect on the finish. It just makes a little less of the surface availabe for abrasion--another negligible effect. We pick out inclusions all the time without negative consequences. YP, Denny

I believes that is correct. I made a picture at 80X magnification 2 days ago, to illustrate something in another thread.
[img=400]http://www.coticule.be/system/modules/helpdesk/HelpdeskFrontendDownload.php?msg=15380&id=1[/img]
This shows the surface of a La Nouvelle Veine at it's natural smoothness (meaning that it doesn't carry any lapping marks).
It also shows that the edge won't touch the entire surface, but only the hight spots. But it are not these high spots as such that create the scratch pattern on the razor, as those high spots are mostly soft binder, without significant power to abrade steel. But we also see those small brilliant spots. I think those are the actual garnets, and of those, the ones that touch the steel will cut. I could sand the surface to a roughness of 24 grit sandpaper, those brilliant spots will still have the same size.

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[DJKELLY]

COOL!