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Time for a new strop
- Thread starter deighaingeal
- Start Date
Smythe
Well-Known Member
Tony Miller used to make some great “practice strops” that were about as good as his premium strops, but sadly he stopped making them… maybe the premium strops showed better returns. Now, I strongly suspect Tony Miller stopped producing strops for sale on his website… and now supplies branded strops for SRD.:cry:
Tried one of the “filly” strops… was not too fond of it; it did a reasonable good job (for its price), but just didn’t have the “feel” of a razor strop, and I was often “second guessing” the quality of the resulting edge.
I think 3 inch wide strops are a waste of good leather… seriously, who invented that monster… and why?... it to compliment the 3 inch wide stone so we don’t have to do an “X” or diagonal stroke?
:
So my question is... where do we find good quality strops for a reasonable prices?
P.S.
I have my own view of the TNT (thought most will not agree with them). I believe it’s one of the most useful tests when sharpening a razor… even when polishing the edge… and yes I did say the “Thumb Nail Test”.
Tried one of the “filly” strops… was not too fond of it; it did a reasonable good job (for its price), but just didn’t have the “feel” of a razor strop, and I was often “second guessing” the quality of the resulting edge.
I think 3 inch wide strops are a waste of good leather… seriously, who invented that monster… and why?... it to compliment the 3 inch wide stone so we don’t have to do an “X” or diagonal stroke?
: So my question is... where do we find good quality strops for a reasonable prices?
P.S.
I have my own view of the TNT (thought most will not agree with them). I believe it’s one of the most useful tests when sharpening a razor… even when polishing the edge… and yes I did say the “Thumb Nail Test”.
Paul
Well-Known Member
Cedrick,
I agree with you on the Filly, and I no longer recommend that to anyone under any circumstances. There are very good economic arguments for buying a better quality strop.
Regarding Tony Miller, I seriously doubt that he's making strops for SRD. I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem likely from the conversations I've had with Lynn about his wares. Tony's now making very nice journal covers and such.
An email to Keith DeGrau will get you a really nice Hand American Old Dog for roughly $75, and the SRD strops are a very good value in my opinion.
Best,
Paul
I agree with you on the Filly, and I no longer recommend that to anyone under any circumstances. There are very good economic arguments for buying a better quality strop.
Regarding Tony Miller, I seriously doubt that he's making strops for SRD. I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem likely from the conversations I've had with Lynn about his wares. Tony's now making very nice journal covers and such.
An email to Keith DeGrau will get you a really nice Hand American Old Dog for roughly $75, and the SRD strops are a very good value in my opinion.
Best,
Paul
Smythe
Well-Known Member
I look at the clues…
Many moons ago Tony mentioned Amish “helpers” when manufacturing his strops.
With the exception of the branding… have a look at any of Tony’s strops… they look exactly like those at SRD.
Just a few posts earlier in this thread, Robin mentioned SRD strops were hand crafted by Amish (he thinks).
The “coincidence” is hard to miss.
But here is my situation… I sell razors, and very often a new shaver buys a razor but he has no strop… I believe a new shaver should purchase a reasonable priced strop, because as he perfects his stropping technique, he WILL, before long, cut up the strop with the razor… and it would be a terrible waste to damage a brand new (often high end) strop soon after purchase (because good quality practice strops are unavailable in the market). So I am always on the lookout for a supply of good strops at reasonable prices. The filly was a great price… but... nuff said.
A look at SRD’s selection… it appears to me… they sell you a “mid-price to high end” strop… then knowing that the new shaver will cut up the strop… they also have for sale, “replacement” leather component (at half the price of the strop).. it would be nice if they also sell practice strops just a little over the of the "replacement" component... after all it's the leather that does the work... but... it’s a great way to make money off those who have no other choice?:cry:
Many moons ago Tony mentioned Amish “helpers” when manufacturing his strops.
With the exception of the branding… have a look at any of Tony’s strops… they look exactly like those at SRD.
Just a few posts earlier in this thread, Robin mentioned SRD strops were hand crafted by Amish (he thinks).
The “coincidence” is hard to miss.
But here is my situation… I sell razors, and very often a new shaver buys a razor but he has no strop… I believe a new shaver should purchase a reasonable priced strop, because as he perfects his stropping technique, he WILL, before long, cut up the strop with the razor… and it would be a terrible waste to damage a brand new (often high end) strop soon after purchase (because good quality practice strops are unavailable in the market). So I am always on the lookout for a supply of good strops at reasonable prices. The filly was a great price… but... nuff said.
A look at SRD’s selection… it appears to me… they sell you a “mid-price to high end” strop… then knowing that the new shaver will cut up the strop… they also have for sale, “replacement” leather component (at half the price of the strop).. it would be nice if they also sell practice strops just a little over the of the "replacement" component... after all it's the leather that does the work... but... it’s a great way to make money off those who have no other choice?:cry:
This may be getting a little off track from the thread, but I seriously doubt Tony Miller would be making strops for Straight Razor Designs. As far as the Amish helpers go, Tony mentioned awhile back that his Amish friends manufactured the handles for his strops. What Tony did with the strops is choose the materials and material treatment from the leather tannery, select high quality pieces of leather from what was sent to him, cut the strop leather, and assemble the strops. With SRD, I believe their Amish partners do all of the fabrication while Lynn, and maybe Don also, choose the materials and treatments.
To my knowledge, Tony was the first to come out with his modular strop design and the 3-inch stropping width. If this is true, I would fathom he would be a little upset with SRD using his modular designs. Also, SRD mentions that their strop leather comes from Horween. I was subscribed to a thread in which Tony posted about another Tannery, and then subsequently deleted the post. Tony is very careful about not telling people where he sources leather so that imitations don't arise. The tannery mentioned in that post was not Horween by the way, and the only reason I know about the post is that I received a copy of the post in an email before he deleted it.
Tony doesn't post much on SRP anymore. He is slightly more active on Badger and Blade, which unfortunately is in a dumb competition with SRP. In fact, he recently donated one of his Artisan models to a Badger and Blade competition, but did not do so for SRP.
Strops were a side business for Tony. He works as an aerospace engineer in non-destructive evaluation (NDE), I believe. He has also mentioned that he wants to spend more time on himself and with his family.
He still does business in journal covers, which don't require as much time and effort due to the eased leather quality requirements.
Because of what I stated above, I am going to have to disagree with you, Smythe - of course in the most gentlemanly way possible. I am not here to make enemies - just friends, and learning how to use Coticules.
To my knowledge, Tony was the first to come out with his modular strop design and the 3-inch stropping width. If this is true, I would fathom he would be a little upset with SRD using his modular designs. Also, SRD mentions that their strop leather comes from Horween. I was subscribed to a thread in which Tony posted about another Tannery, and then subsequently deleted the post. Tony is very careful about not telling people where he sources leather so that imitations don't arise. The tannery mentioned in that post was not Horween by the way, and the only reason I know about the post is that I received a copy of the post in an email before he deleted it.
Tony doesn't post much on SRP anymore. He is slightly more active on Badger and Blade, which unfortunately is in a dumb competition with SRP. In fact, he recently donated one of his Artisan models to a Badger and Blade competition, but did not do so for SRP.
Strops were a side business for Tony. He works as an aerospace engineer in non-destructive evaluation (NDE), I believe. He has also mentioned that he wants to spend more time on himself and with his family.
He still does business in journal covers, which don't require as much time and effort due to the eased leather quality requirements.
Because of what I stated above, I am going to have to disagree with you, Smythe - of course in the most gentlemanly way possible. I am not here to make enemies - just friends, and learning how to use Coticules.
This may be getting a little off track from the thread, but I seriously doubt Tony Miller would be making strops for Straight Razor Designs. As far as the Amish helpers go, Tony mentioned awhile back that his Amish friends manufactured the handles for his strops. What Tony did with the strops is choose the materials and material treatment from the leather tannery, select high quality pieces of leather from what was sent to him, cut the strop leather, and assemble the strops. With SRD, I believe their Amish partners do all of the fabrication while Lynn, and maybe Don also, choose the materials and treatments.
To my knowledge, Tony was the first to come out with his modular strop design and the 3-inch stropping width. If this is true, I would fathom he would be a little upset with SRD using his modular designs. Also, SRD mentions that their strop leather comes from Horween. I was subscribed to a thread in which Tony posted about another Tannery, and then subsequently deleted the post. Tony is very careful about not telling people where he sources leather so that imitations don't arise. The tannery mentioned in that post was not Horween by the way, and the only reason I know about the post is that I received a copy of the post in an email before he deleted it.
Tony doesn't post much on SRP anymore. He is slightly more active on Badger and Blade, which unfortunately is in a dumb competition with SRP. In fact, he recently donated one of his Artisan models to a Badger and Blade competition, but did not do so for SRP.
Strops were a side business for Tony. He works as an aerospace engineer I believe in non-destructive evaluation (NDE). He has also mentioned that he wants to spend more time on himself and with his family.
He still does business in journal covers, which don't require as much time and effort due to the eased leather quality requirements.
Because of what I stated above, I am going to have to disagree with you, Smythe - of course in the most gentlemanly way possible. I am not here to make enemies - just friends, and learning how to use Coticules.
To my knowledge, Tony was the first to come out with his modular strop design and the 3-inch stropping width. If this is true, I would fathom he would be a little upset with SRD using his modular designs. Also, SRD mentions that their strop leather comes from Horween. I was subscribed to a thread in which Tony posted about another Tannery, and then subsequently deleted the post. Tony is very careful about not telling people where he sources leather so that imitations don't arise. The tannery mentioned in that post was not Horween by the way, and the only reason I know about the post is that I received a copy of the post in an email before he deleted it.
Tony doesn't post much on SRP anymore. He is slightly more active on Badger and Blade, which unfortunately is in a dumb competition with SRP. In fact, he recently donated one of his Artisan models to a Badger and Blade competition, but did not do so for SRP.
Strops were a side business for Tony. He works as an aerospace engineer I believe in non-destructive evaluation (NDE). He has also mentioned that he wants to spend more time on himself and with his family.
He still does business in journal covers, which don't require as much time and effort due to the eased leather quality requirements.
Because of what I stated above, I am going to have to disagree with you, Smythe - of course in the most gentlemanly way possible. I am not here to make enemies - just friends, and learning how to use Coticules.
Paul
Well-Known Member
I'm relatively close to Lynn, and my guess is that there's less than a 1% chance of Tony making his strops, but I could be wrong. Considering the fact that I've used strops from both of them, I'd really be surprised if he did because he'd be doing a better job for SRD than he did for himself.
Back to the cheap strop issue, what about those Dovo strops? I've never used one, but I hear good things... Maybe I need to buy one to review it and try it out for a while...
Back to the cheap strop issue, what about those Dovo strops? I've never used one, but I hear good things... Maybe I need to buy one to review it and try it out for a while...
I believe Lynn has his strops made in Holms county Ohio in a town called Millersburg. This area is mostly Amish and they make a lot of buggy parts and Leather harnesses, etc. I am very familiar with that area and think I remember Don telling me about this, of course this was before I was permanently banned from the site. 
Ray
Ray
G
Guest
Well made, sturdy, good leather and linen - and bloody expensive. The small ones are too small (I dinged several blades on the handles), and the Russian allegedly has a tendency to cup. I have actually seen one that does, but then again, I have also seen an SRD one that does. Apparently, this just happens. After all, we are talking about natural materials being used here.richmondesi said:
Oh, and Cedric? I like 3" strops, especially at 04:30am. No need for x strokes, less danger of nicking the leather. Maybe I am just lazy or clumsy (most likely, both), but I really like the extra width.
Regards,
Robin
tat2Ralfy
Well-Known Member
BeBerlin said:
I have the small and large one, and must agree the small one is too small, however after over a year of daily use my large one is still in tip top condition, and it only cost me £78 or so, I always recommend them if asked, because mine is spot on
Best regards
Ralfson
garyhaywood
Well-Known Member
my supplier has back in stock the large dovo with the flexable padded handle. they are £45 at trade price.
Smythe
Well-Known Member
May I suggest, you are not exactly disagreeing with me… in fact, you may be agreeing with me more than you think…altshaver said:
SRD is doing something similar to what Tony did… Both SRD and Tony’s strops are modular… Tony was probably the first to come up with and sold 3” strops, and now SRD is selling the same (not to mention the Amish helpers they both use), he may or may not be upset, but do you see the similarities? There may be more.
So the only thing we may disagree about is Tony making strops for SRD… but even that we may not disagree about… so here is a thought…
Being an active member of SRP (indeed he was a frequent poster in the stropping sections). Every other member singing praises about the fine quality of his strops (I remember whenever a new member post a question “where do I get a strop” the majority of replies would be “get a Tony Miller strop”), his strops were such in demand there was a waiting list… he couldn’t make enough of them… while at the same time SRD also selling shaving gear... did SRD ever sell TM strops?
Maybe there was a “conflict of interest?”… because I found strangely coincidental that Tony got out of the strop business at about the same time SRD started getting into selling strops along with other shaving gear… or maybe he wanted to spend more time with family so he sold the business to SRD… we may never know…
… but I hate “loose ends” and it’s been bugging me for some time.
Now if you’re following me so far… and I have not misinterpreted anything… given all the above, what do you think?
Anyone will tell you, there are very few things you can do or say to make enemies here. And I do like to be proven wrong, it is often the best way to put to rest my suspicions… and learn something new.altshaver said:
G
Guest
Actually, I think you will give the Old Traditional strop a try. At least if I get a say in the buying decision.Smythe said:
Here is why: The Dovo is a nice strop. But mass produced, and lacking any sort of personality. Besides which, I believe that an SRD strop will provide better value for money. But strops like the Old Traditional, the Kanayamas (no handle, not strop for Robin, sorry, guys), and that very, very interesting looking Hand American one ooze artisanship. I love my razors, especially the old ones. I like that they were hand made, and not mass produced. I want them to enjoy a peaceful, quiet life in the company of other artisan products (except soaps and creams, because most of them are sub standard). Which is, incidentally, why I prefer Thäter brushes over most other brushes - expensive, but hand made, and fantastic quality.
Errrr... where was I?
As an aside, I had been thinking of buying one of Tony's strops "back then", but there was indeed a waiting list. SRD solved that problem for me (and many others), and I find that commendable. The latest strops I got from them provide excellent value for money, and are readily available. That is all I expect from a strop.
The potential personal politics involved in this discussion are of no concern to me as a consumer. I do, however, find it indicative of the politics of certain forums to provide a public venue for such discussions. Because they are based on hear-say at best, and should be settled between the individuals involved in the issue direct anyhow. There is much too much discussion about individuals, manufacturers (anyone ever actually visited Dovo or TI...?), or vendors instead of products. And far too often for my liking, people relatively new to straight razors develop very strong opinions (more often than not, exactly in line with those of the forum maintainer) based on hear-say.
Maybe something that one needs to keep in mind as an experienced user, and relay to beginners: It is a hobby, not a religion. Therefore, there should be no room for spiritual leaders, or zealotry. We should maybe remind ourselves and others that falsifiability is a good thing, especially for areas where little or no scientific research exists. Such as... basically everything that relates to straight razor shaving?
Regards,
Robin
Robin I like the last part of your post and couldn't agree more. Perhaps in the spirit of your post I can clarify the speculation and pass along the true situation. In a one on one direct conversation with Tony he told me that making strops has always been a hobby for him. The number of orders and his commitment to the customers took more and more of his time. He stopped making strops for a good while when his father in law was very ill and he felt his place was with his wife and family during that trying time. His father in law did pass away after a long illness and some time later when the sting from losing him passed he started making strops again in a limited way. Neither one of us is getting any younger and he just felt he needed to stop and enjoy more time with his family. The strop business was never meant to be a full time big money making job but it almost got that way. As far as materials he and SRD get materials from different Amish sources. There was never any animosity between Tony and Lynn---pure rumor and a disservice to both men. Tony is a good Christian man who would never harbor ill feelings over something as trivial as strops of all things. He's just not made that way.
The only reason I posted this is hopefully put to rest the speculation. Since I have had direct conversations as Robin mentioned I feel I can reasonably pass along some of the true facts.
Phil
The only reason I posted this is hopefully put to rest the speculation. Since I have had direct conversations as Robin mentioned I feel I can reasonably pass along some of the true facts.
Phil
G
Guest
I hereby declare Phil the voice of reason in a sea of sycophantic madness. Thank you, Phil.
I also came across this post by one Bruce Everiss, and I absolutely love it.
Regards,
Robin
I also came across this post by one Bruce Everiss, and I absolutely love it.
Regards,
Robin
BeBerlin said:
I think you mean Bruce Everiss. This article is really good. It highlights a lot of points. However, unless I missed it, he fails to mention the issue of marketing in forums. Also, I would take with a grain of salt about which forums he chose as good and bad. Personally, I feel that all of the forums probably could have gone in the avoid column depending on your point of view. I do agree with him that the shaving blogs tend to be of very good quality. I read many of those on a regular basis, including Bruce's, BeBerlin's, Corey Greenberg's (old), and JimR's.
The forums he doesn't like are the ones that banned him. I would doubt he would have wrote negatively about those forums had he not been banned. From what I have read, he was banned because he got tied up with Frank Shaving brushes, which are ultra cheap (at least in price) Chinese made shaving brushes. On B&B in particular, the brushes were being pushed by a person selling the brushes that was using multiple accounts to create and boost threads. As I understand it, Bruce was given brushes for review by Ian Tang for free. He posted his opinions on them and was subsequently banned in those forums because of that. I don't necessarily think that is fair to him, but I understand why each forum would want to protect their membership from products being sold by less than honest people - the Frank shaving brush people, not Bruce. Also, he mentions Ikon. That company has a really bad reputation for not delivering products and not being kind to customers. Ikon also had a website: http://www.badgerblade.com that directed people towards their storefront site. I can't fault B&B banning that company for that. To be clear, I am not a huge fan of B&B. There are nice people there, and I think they have the best BST of all the forums in my opinion. However, B&B has a low signal to noise ratio.
I am pretty much of the opinion that forums are not the best places in the world (with this forum and WSW being exceptions in my opinion - SRP if you ignore that many mods are also vendors). Where they really shine is being able to trade shaving gear to minimize loss on unwanted items and for trying out new things for less money. Perhaps it is best to find a place that suits you or just read the information sections and go on with your life.
On topic with the forum:
I own a RupRazor Filly, Custom HandAmerican Keith De'Grau Signature Strop - Cordovan/Diamond Embossed English Bridle, a couple Kanoyama Kanayama strops, and a SRD Premium IV. I don't care for the Filly as I think it makes a poor learning instrument. The Premium IV is a nice strop. The Kanoyama strops are pretty nice as well, but pricey. The HandAmerican strops are probably the most unique strops on the market due to their diamond embossing and are not too expensive if you don't buy the Classic Shaving model. Depending on your budget, I don't think you can go wrong with a Kanoyama, SRD, or HandAmerican strop. Warning if you want to get an HA strop: you'll need a lot of patience as Keith is not always the easiest person to buy from - he is a good guy though. In the future, I am probably going to lose a few of the strops and settle on one, or maybe two strops.
Has anyone used an Illinois strop? They seem to be reasonably priced, but I was wondering what others think of them.