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too much!!!

chti_lolo

Well-Known Member
"It was one of those nights
When you turned out the lights
And everything comes into view
She was taking her time
I was losing my mind
There was nothing that she wouldn't do"
I was listening to some old music yesterday, while trying another Dilucot on another razor. The edge of this razor was good but couldn't shave armhair. I have used all the tips which were given here to me and this was a success:rolleyes:. HHT out of the hone was a high 2 or a low 3 on thick hair all along the blade. My morning shave was good. After that ,I used a hint of Ralfy
tat2Ralfy said:
I did 10 light laps on the balsa and another 50 on coti/water
and I realised watching the wave in front of the edge that there was plenty of room for progress. HHT was a good 3 or 4 (I don't know exactly what is the difference) on medium hair at about 1cm from the holding point. On very thin hair I can't have a real HHT 3 (I only have a HHT-3 at 5mm from the holding point).

So thanks everybody

Laurent

oh, here is the winner
P1020428.jpg
 

decraew

Well-Known Member
Congrats Laurent, feels good to succeed in dilucot doesn't it !

I like that razor by the way. "Intrépide" hah ... :D

Makes me think of a beautiful razor (worked spine &all) that I saw at Bart's place,that one read "Sans Souci" !
 

BlueDun

Well-Known Member
Congrats dear honing pal!! Well done!

And you put your finger on an important point I only learned to watch for during the coti pilgrimage: "the wave in front of the edge" or the ability to undercut the slurry. PLEASE Bart, do add that point to the dilucot description. When you are a newbie you just have no indication when a dilution step is done or if you are diluting too slow or too fast. This slurry undercutting is a reproducible and unambiguous sign that the edge has reached a certain level of keenness. It helped me a lot with my dilucot although I still have a long way to go ..


Cheers
BlueDun
 

Tok

Well-Known Member
Undercut? What does this mean exactly? I don´t really get what this is. Is it possible to see photos?

Congrats to you, chti_lolo, by the way!

Thanks and Regards,
Tok
 

decraew

Well-Known Member
It means the blade moves between the stone and the fluid, so the blade cuts under the fluid and kind of scoops it up.

What I'm not sure about: is it ok if the blade just pushes the fluid forward (depending on the speed of the movement) ?
 

BlueDun

Well-Known Member
I'll try to explain, but fotos would certainly help much more.

So when you are honing do a slow and very precise x-stroke with little to no pressure. Watch exactly what happens along the very edge. You'll see either that the edge pushes a wave of slurry in front of it or you'll see that the slurry will actually flow over the edge back up towards the spine. The second effect is called "undercutting". The edge is thin (sharp) enough to reach underneath the slurry and "cut" it. If the edge is dull you'll have to imagine a tiny "wall" that just pushes the slurry away as you move.
The thinner the slurry is, the keener the edge needs to be in order to undercut the slurry. Sometimes, and then this is extremeley helpful, parts of the blade will actually undercut the slurry and others will not. This will give you a very exact indication where on the blade some more work is needed.

Hope this is roughly clear enough.

Cheers
BlueDun
 

jfdupuis

Well-Known Member
I've always noticed that phenomenon but I've never really understood how it could be an indication that the edge has reached its peak and the slurry needs more water. Very interesting thread.
 

chti_lolo

Well-Known Member
With the standard procedure, my blade always "undercuts" the slurry at the end of the half-strokes serie so I have not made the correlation between slurry thickness and "run up" phenomenon.

But I had problems in the finishing stage, with X-strokes on water only and Bart gave me this advice :
Bart said:
Carefull watch the water run up the edge. Put your mind to making it do that. You'll notice that the water runs easily up some parts and less so on other parts. Make it run up those parts as well. I can't explain this: just put your mind to it, apply just enough pressure to make that happen and focus on the spots that respond least. You'll see: it makes a difference.
That works easily on the Intrepid razor but I have not yet solved the problem with my other razor which had flaws (I had to remove some chips on the edge), I have to improve my technique
 

DJKELLY

Well-Known Member
Good work, Laurent. Je m'appel Denis. I have another tidbit to throw into the mix. I had a hard time with some razors and not with others until I religiously used blue magic marker on both the edge and the spine before starting to hone. Take a swipe or two per side and you might be amazed at the areas on the problem razor spine and edge that are not hitting the stone. Unless you are pretty good with steel and use reflected light it is very difficult to see warp and many razors have numerous warps on the same edge. (Ask Ray) If you don't get full contact you have to use rolling half/x strokes or a narrower hone, or both. I now use a coti that I cut down into pieces 45mm and 35mm for most of my honing and have not had much trouble since. I am not sure, but I think warp will actually make an edge that is ok from half strokes go backward when you reach the x stroke phase of dilucot if you don't know where it is on the blade. Sincerely, Dennis
 

chti_lolo

Well-Known Member
Thanks Denis,

I have already used the magic marker test on the edge (a tip from Gary I think) but never on the spine.
I also make rolling X-stroke but I know they are not perfect. So maybe a problem of contact of the spine,
don't think so but it is difficult to appreciate.

So I will check that...


Regards

Laurent
 

DJKELLY

Well-Known Member
The real gist of my post is to consider the width of your stone. Most of the pros like 40mm! I was going for much wider one and it caused me fits. If you get your stroke down, you can use a stone no bigger than a razor box. Just ask Paul. Also, if you can't get a narrower hone, Gary says to treat your stone like it is only 40mm wide and just use that portion with your rolling strokes. With some blades, you just have to finish on a narrower hone--frowns, for instance. Did I really spell that Francais correctly? It's been a lifetime.
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Frowns need removing, not honing buddy and I use a wonderful cuticle
Often, and it's no bigger than my finger 
Best regards
Ralfy(Dr)
 

DJKELLY

Well-Known Member
Right again, Ralphy, but small ones can be hard for us boots to detect, and I can personally attest to their ability to frustrate. I am certainly not saying wide coticules are bad, by the way. We are all in different places on this journey.

Where did I misspell coticule? I can't find it. You are an evil person.:mad:

With only kindest regards, Denny
 

tat2Ralfy

Well-Known Member
Lol  The miss spell was mine Denny
Sorry about that Damn iPhone hahaha

My warmest regards
Ralfson (dr)
 

chti_lolo

Well-Known Member
I have tried the marker test yesterday, there were no problems on the spine with my strokes, but I saw a little point of marker near the edge. I could remove it with some specifific work but finally got the same result the first cm of the edge is HHT 3, then 2 cm of HHT 1 the HHT 3. So I have finished with my balsa hone ad it seems to be HHT 3 everywhere. I have to make a shave test...

DJKELLY said:
Also, if you can't get a narrower hone, Gary says to treat your stone like it is only 40mm wide and just use that portion with your rolling strokes.
while struggling with that blade, it has come naturally to me (surely it's more easy)

Regards

Laurent

PS: Denis, You have just made a little french mistake "je m'appelle...", but I could understand and your spelling is quite as good as my daughter's:D
 
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